I see Al as HWFL. He was part of a team I'll never forget (reason why I'm a dubs fan today) and an important piece of the rotation that helped smoke those Mavs in 6
I wish Paschall well, I hope he improves as a player down in Utah and manages to carve himself a nice long career in the NBA
Looking at the master list for this series, it's kind of strange to see Omari Spellman in the W4L list with so many other notable past Dubs not making it...
OT Just reading this about Looney winning the Drew League championship and being named MVP with 25 pts [including his tip in to send the championship game to OT] and 14 rebounds.
In sum: Loon at 25 kicked ass in the Drew League; Wiggs at 26 kicked ass for Team Canada; Dray at 31 kicked ass for Team USA; Otto at 28 feels better than he has in a couple years; and Steph at a ripe old 33 is still eleven years younger than Tom Brady, and was a top 3 NBA player last season.
Obviously, this is the time of year when hope springs eternal for all hoops fans, but without squinting *too* hard, I can see Curry-Wiggs-Porter-Green-Looney as a top 5 starting five in the league … and that’s *before* Klay returns.
With Poole lighting it up off the bench and making a strong case for 6MOY.
Hope this is the year for Looney... last year he seemed to be healthier than he's ever been, played his highest MPG too. Always feels like he's got more than he's shown, just because he's "playing his role"...
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Looney much more of a shooter at UCLA? I have a vague recollection about his scouting report being a guy with range.
Yea I actually thought last year _was_ his year haha... there were certainly a few plays that made me go, "Kevon Durant!". But maybe my bar is just low and I'm just happy he can contribute significant minutes.
Harrington is close, but in applying my “Does the general public think of him as a Warrior?” test, would guess most NBA fans remember him as a Pacer.
With Paschall, I thought he was a lot of fun in his rookie season, but the nagging feeling that he made no effort to improve his mechanics and defense, and let his conditioning get away from him last season makes it hard for me to really get behind him.
Interesting pairing of EP with Harrington. Both are undersized scoring bigs with completely different offensive games. Both played for coaches that wanted them to play a style they weren't totally comfortable with.
"Don't care" for EP... but leaning slightly towards "Well" but that will probably fade as we watch Kuminga develop in the next season as a more complete version of EP.
Harrington deserves at least Honorary Warrior for being part of the We Believe core.
Paschall - don’t care, I just can’t root for guys who don’t play D and don’t make the right pass on O. He seemed to make progress towards the end of his rookie year, but the shutdown really derailed his progress.
Al Harrington I’d wish him well except I don’t think he should be a Warrior for life so the official answer has to be don’t care.
Yeah but Andre SC is right. Under the rules, we can't wish someone well without voting that they be a Warrior for Life. I get that's the game but... would that it were otherwise. So I have to vote the same way he did, "don't care" for both even though I did like Harrington.
I understand where you are coming from. It doesn't really bother me what you're doing, but here is my detailed perspective:
I used to poll directly the question "Is X an Honorary Warrior For Life". These discussions would get hung up on the definition of "Honorary Warrior For Life", which is just a funny phrase I came up with in 5 seconds, when I thought it would be funny to vote on it like the baseball hall of fame (75% threshold). I wasn't drunk but I probably hadn't slept much either.
This is good for engagement... for instance, 95% of Most Valuable Player discussions are about the definition of the phrase and not about players. I know many people LOVE to argue about definitions. (What is a hooper??)
It all came to a head a couple years ago when we were arguing about Rick Barry. Most people polled hate him. But many felt some obligation to call him an Honorary Warrior. Rick Barry's radio co-host even wrote me on Twitter flaming me for even suggesting that Rick wasn't an HWFL. That was novel but not educational.
So, I have been trying a different poll. I also wanted to be able to ask the same question about David West as I would James Harden without biasing people to assume that one was HWFL and one was a Warriors Villain For Life.
Is it scientific? Definitely not. Can it be gamed? I'm not so sure. After doing dozens and dozens of these polls, I feel very comfortable about the outcomes. I believe that only the most loved characters can make the 75% threshold of Well. Often players that I wanted to be HWFL didn't make it and it's clear that Dub Nation was only lukewarm on some of my favorites.
This process is vulnerable, like all polls, to the heat of the moment. I am guessing Damian and Omari wouldn't qualify today. If there were anything at stake, we should wait at least 1 year after a player leaves in order to be considered (like the MLB HOF having a 5 year wait period post-retirement before voting).
On the other hand, it's kind of boring and overly scientific to wait a year. Voting on Omari, GR3 and Burks now... it seems like the moment has passed.
So anyway, I'm always open to changing up the process... my main criterion is whether it triggers decent discussion. And for now, people who want to argue about HWFL can discuss that anyway...
I like the way the poll is structured. If there's anything I'd change, maybe emphasize the actual question (on DNHQ anyway) and then hopefully you get more of "your poll results driving the conclusion" and less of the "conclusions driving the poll results" -- if that even matters (probably not! haha).
This brings up a good point. Current core -> Bridge -> Future core. I think some people think the Bridge should be the Current core + all the young guys trying to replicate former players/old lineups. I understand and love the Warriors system on both sides and the value of the future core learning the Warriors (Steph/Dray) system. But for the Bridge to be James Brown successful, they will need to find ways to incorporate and exploit some of the 'potential' talents of the younger core. Certainly, JDub, MoodRing and JFK need to learn the basic skills that will keep them on the court, but at some point, Kerr and company need to be willing to empower them. Poole is a great example. His proved himself. Now its up to Kerr to put him in the game (before the 2nd Qtr, thank you) and leave him in the game. Yes, everyone should earn their minutes. But at some point, we are hoping that the play of the young guys will force the hand of Kerr to expand upon the Warriors system, to get past Dray at the top of the key for all 12 minutes of the 1st & 3rd Qtrs, to run plays that they frankly couldn't run before because of personnel. Point being, if the Bridge is going to be successful, Steph, Klay, Dray, Kerr will have to embrace (and rejoice in) the process by which the youth mature and ultimately surpass the current core. Note: this ain't happening anytime soon! But it's imperative that the old guard, Kerr most importantly, don't look at the Bridge as just another version of the past. This first part of the Trilogy has been written. This year begins part 2 of the ultimate Warriors Dynasty Trilogy that will span about 15 years. I can't wait for the DVD Box Set.
Yeah, if he still has the miles left in him, I don't think you can ask for a better backup PG. He can shoot a ton and he can pass pretty well. He's a little undersized, but mostly been a positive throughout his career. Works for me (if he still has it). Why did he not play the last two years though?
This is important to note. He didn’t retire because of a drop off in performance. His final-season numbers were right in line with his career numbers. He’s had no wear and tear over the last two years, so if he’s healthy and in shape, he might be just what the doctor ordered at the vet min.
Like others have said before, I wish both TMNT and EP well both on and off the court and I thank them for their years on the team. Other than than that? I don't have much else to say...
Not rooting against either of these guys and generally wish them well. But I don't think of them as Warriors for life. I guess intuitively, I'm using a different definition.
Poor Paschall. Him and Chriss never really got the true Warriors experience during their tenure here. Unfortunate. I think he can be useful in the league, just on another team. If I had to pick, it'd be Al. I have a soft spot for anyone that was on the team during the We Believe year... even Josh Powell.
I see Al as HWFL. He was part of a team I'll never forget (reason why I'm a dubs fan today) and an important piece of the rotation that helped smoke those Mavs in 6
I wish Paschall well, I hope he improves as a player down in Utah and manages to carve himself a nice long career in the NBA
Hey Apricot, did you even tell people about the JTA and Mulder/Dray videos you put on YT.
THEEEEEYYYY’RRRREEEEE GRRREEEAATTT
It’s a secret bonus for people who subscribed to our YouTube channel. But soon enough I’ll link to them in an article here…
Our YT channel: http://youtube.com/c/DubNationHQ
Did you even tell people about your YouTube channel tho
Haha obviously the point of asocial media is to keep it secret, right
We’ll make a bigger deal of it in some future article. But honestly if people subscribe on YT that would help us a lot
Done!
Done :)
Looking at the master list for this series, it's kind of strange to see Omari Spellman in the W4L list with so many other notable past Dubs not making it...
Yeah, there was a lot of love for him right after we traded him. That feeling might have faded
NOT FOR ME!!! Love me O-Spell!
My first thought when I saw this story was "You gotta be kidding."
Hard pass on both.
OT Just reading this about Looney winning the Drew League championship and being named MVP with 25 pts [including his tip in to send the championship game to OT] and 14 rebounds.
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/warriors-kevon-looney-named-drew-league-championship-game-mvp
Nice.
In sum: Loon at 25 kicked ass in the Drew League; Wiggs at 26 kicked ass for Team Canada; Dray at 31 kicked ass for Team USA; Otto at 28 feels better than he has in a couple years; and Steph at a ripe old 33 is still eleven years younger than Tom Brady, and was a top 3 NBA player last season.
Obviously, this is the time of year when hope springs eternal for all hoops fans, but without squinting *too* hard, I can see Curry-Wiggs-Porter-Green-Looney as a top 5 starting five in the league … and that’s *before* Klay returns.
With Poole lighting it up off the bench and making a strong case for 6MOY.
Hope this is the year for Looney... last year he seemed to be healthier than he's ever been, played his highest MPG too. Always feels like he's got more than he's shown, just because he's "playing his role"...
Looney made some good offensive plays last season. Stuff I don't think we've seen before. If only he could get a 3 point shot
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Looney much more of a shooter at UCLA? I have a vague recollection about his scouting report being a guy with range.
He shot 40% on like 50 total attempts. So can't really gain much from that.
More telling, his FT% was still like low 60s.
So you're saying... There's a chance!
Yea I actually thought last year _was_ his year haha... there were certainly a few plays that made me go, "Kevon Durant!". But maybe my bar is just low and I'm just happy he can contribute significant minutes.
I mean... highest MP, TRB, AST per game, fewest hip injuries. It was his year for sure, I'm just hoping it bumps up a little more ;-)
Looney looney!!
I’m voting “don’t care” for both
Harrington is close, but in applying my “Does the general public think of him as a Warrior?” test, would guess most NBA fans remember him as a Pacer.
With Paschall, I thought he was a lot of fun in his rookie season, but the nagging feeling that he made no effort to improve his mechanics and defense, and let his conditioning get away from him last season makes it hard for me to really get behind him.
Interesting pairing of EP with Harrington. Both are undersized scoring bigs with completely different offensive games. Both played for coaches that wanted them to play a style they weren't totally comfortable with.
"Don't care" for EP... but leaning slightly towards "Well" but that will probably fade as we watch Kuminga develop in the next season as a more complete version of EP.
Harrington deserves at least Honorary Warrior for being part of the We Believe core.
"Well" for Harrington, that is.
Paschall - don’t care, I just can’t root for guys who don’t play D and don’t make the right pass on O. He seemed to make progress towards the end of his rookie year, but the shutdown really derailed his progress.
Al Harrington I’d wish him well except I don’t think he should be a Warrior for life so the official answer has to be don’t care.
Haha, don’t try to game theory the vote! :)
Yeah but Andre SC is right. Under the rules, we can't wish someone well without voting that they be a Warrior for Life. I get that's the game but... would that it were otherwise. So I have to vote the same way he did, "don't care" for both even though I did like Harrington.
I understand where you are coming from. It doesn't really bother me what you're doing, but here is my detailed perspective:
I used to poll directly the question "Is X an Honorary Warrior For Life". These discussions would get hung up on the definition of "Honorary Warrior For Life", which is just a funny phrase I came up with in 5 seconds, when I thought it would be funny to vote on it like the baseball hall of fame (75% threshold). I wasn't drunk but I probably hadn't slept much either.
This is good for engagement... for instance, 95% of Most Valuable Player discussions are about the definition of the phrase and not about players. I know many people LOVE to argue about definitions. (What is a hooper??)
It all came to a head a couple years ago when we were arguing about Rick Barry. Most people polled hate him. But many felt some obligation to call him an Honorary Warrior. Rick Barry's radio co-host even wrote me on Twitter flaming me for even suggesting that Rick wasn't an HWFL. That was novel but not educational.
So, I have been trying a different poll. I also wanted to be able to ask the same question about David West as I would James Harden without biasing people to assume that one was HWFL and one was a Warriors Villain For Life.
Is it scientific? Definitely not. Can it be gamed? I'm not so sure. After doing dozens and dozens of these polls, I feel very comfortable about the outcomes. I believe that only the most loved characters can make the 75% threshold of Well. Often players that I wanted to be HWFL didn't make it and it's clear that Dub Nation was only lukewarm on some of my favorites.
This process is vulnerable, like all polls, to the heat of the moment. I am guessing Damian and Omari wouldn't qualify today. If there were anything at stake, we should wait at least 1 year after a player leaves in order to be considered (like the MLB HOF having a 5 year wait period post-retirement before voting).
On the other hand, it's kind of boring and overly scientific to wait a year. Voting on Omari, GR3 and Burks now... it seems like the moment has passed.
So anyway, I'm always open to changing up the process... my main criterion is whether it triggers decent discussion. And for now, people who want to argue about HWFL can discuss that anyway...
I like the way the poll is structured. If there's anything I'd change, maybe emphasize the actual question (on DNHQ anyway) and then hopefully you get more of "your poll results driving the conclusion" and less of the "conclusions driving the poll results" -- if that even matters (probably not! haha).
I thought about making a big deal of emphasizing the question, but I don't mind the conversations about "HWFL" either. So, it's all good.
No Games being played? I'll take all the content I can get. Next up: Mike Montgomery or PJ Carlissimo. LOL
Also FYI.
***
New video breaking down what James Wiseman and Jonathan Kuminga could offer the Warriors this season, plus an appearance by
@ThompsonScribe
to discuss it all:
Can Wiseman and Kuminga Help the Warriors Win Another Title?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucq8yiOPOUg
https://twitter.com/KevinOConnorNBA/status/1432377993587011597?s=20
This brings up a good point. Current core -> Bridge -> Future core. I think some people think the Bridge should be the Current core + all the young guys trying to replicate former players/old lineups. I understand and love the Warriors system on both sides and the value of the future core learning the Warriors (Steph/Dray) system. But for the Bridge to be James Brown successful, they will need to find ways to incorporate and exploit some of the 'potential' talents of the younger core. Certainly, JDub, MoodRing and JFK need to learn the basic skills that will keep them on the court, but at some point, Kerr and company need to be willing to empower them. Poole is a great example. His proved himself. Now its up to Kerr to put him in the game (before the 2nd Qtr, thank you) and leave him in the game. Yes, everyone should earn their minutes. But at some point, we are hoping that the play of the young guys will force the hand of Kerr to expand upon the Warriors system, to get past Dray at the top of the key for all 12 minutes of the 1st & 3rd Qtrs, to run plays that they frankly couldn't run before because of personnel. Point being, if the Bridge is going to be successful, Steph, Klay, Dray, Kerr will have to embrace (and rejoice in) the process by which the youth mature and ultimately surpass the current core. Note: this ain't happening anytime soon! But it's imperative that the old guard, Kerr most importantly, don't look at the Bridge as just another version of the past. This first part of the Trilogy has been written. This year begins part 2 of the ultimate Warriors Dynasty Trilogy that will span about 15 years. I can't wait for the DVD Box Set.
This was great.
Is it October yet? I am not looking forward to another 6 weeks of this waiting. At least the Ben Simmons trade chatter is quieter these days...
FYI
***
Chris Haynes @ChrisBHaynes
Free agent guard Darren Collison will work out for the Golden State Warriors this week, league sources tell @YahooSports.
https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/1432388774126891009?s=19
Hmmm... interesting. There'll be a lot of rust there but when its shaken off he's pretty much Jrue Holiday lite and I'll take that. Solid player.
Both played on the same team at UCLA
Jrue Holiday dreams of being able to shoot half as well as Darren Collison.
Who knows how how much left he has in the tank at 34, tho…
Yeah, if he still has the miles left in him, I don't think you can ask for a better backup PG. He can shoot a ton and he can pass pretty well. He's a little undersized, but mostly been a positive throughout his career. Works for me (if he still has it). Why did he not play the last two years though?
He's a Jehovah's Witness who retired to dedicate more time to that.
This is important to note. He didn’t retire because of a drop off in performance. His final-season numbers were right in line with his career numbers. He’s had no wear and tear over the last two years, so if he’s healthy and in shape, he might be just what the doctor ordered at the vet min.
Efficiency-wise, his 2nd to last year was probably his best season, and his last year was not far behind. So he retired on top of his game.
Two years ago, he was probably in the 20-25 range of PG's in the league. He could still be top 35-40, and that's a fine backup.
maybe just a little less than 33 year old Patty Mills?
2 years more than if he'd been playing.
We really seem to be kicking the tires on a lot of short point guard types don't we?
Beggers can't be choosers. At the vet min, I don't think it's a bad move
So, he last played in the NBA in 2018... so... um.
He retired to do religious stuff, not because he was washed.
2019. 18-19 season he was the starting PG for a 48 win Indy team.
Well x 2.
Like others have said before, I wish both TMNT and EP well both on and off the court and I thank them for their years on the team. Other than than that? I don't have much else to say...
Not rooting against either of these guys and generally wish them well. But I don't think of them as Warriors for life. I guess intuitively, I'm using a different definition.
I must admit I don't really care about Paschall from now on outside of a general sense of gratitude. His rookie season was fun, but that's about it.
Not wanting anyone from the We Believe team to do well is heresy, so obviously that's the answer.
Poor Paschall. Him and Chriss never really got the true Warriors experience during their tenure here. Unfortunate. I think he can be useful in the league, just on another team. If I had to pick, it'd be Al. I have a soft spot for anyone that was on the team during the We Believe year... even Josh Powell.
Well, for both.
Paschall was one of the few things that made the 19-20 warriors somewhat watchable and I know I'll keep cheering for him.
Harrington - integral member of we believe. Definitely "well".