I note with respect the varied opinions on here but ultimately I really do think the voting for HWFL just comes down to whether you like or didn't like the person being voted for.
Omari Spellman (Warrior for one year) made the list. As did Glenn Robinson III and Thunder the Mascot and the non-Warrior legend that is Allen Iverson
Kevin Durant didn't make the list. Neither did Tim Hardaway or Harrison Barnes. Or the absolute Warrior legend that is Šarūnas Marčiulionis :-)
Arguments in terms of longevity, achievement, or ability don't quite make sense when you look through who made the list and those who didn't.
I like the back story of Jonathan Kuminga, the good memories of him as a Warrior and I guess also because he's a fellow francophone. Just personal reasons. So I'm voting #YES and I hope he does well.
I still think he has starting potential on a contender in this league. He may even still have that All-star ceiling. I think his floor is a rotation piece for a contender, but he has yet to figure that out. He needs reps, and he didn't get them here.
But, he was here for 4+ years. He was a piece in a 'chip window, and we have graced players with smaller roles with the HWFL title as well. He represents part of a warriors legacy of might-have-beens and what-if's. And like it or not, that's part of the legacy that MDJ and Joe have written these last 4 years during Steph's Indian Summer of his career.
I'll always be a JK fan, in spite of all the drama leaking out now. And I will follow his future adventures.
Thought about slotting him in under my same TJD criteria ("what's the harm?") But he was too much of a disappointment — no notable improvement in any aspect of his game over four-plus seasons — and too much of a general buzzkill over the last two-plus seasons to vote yes in good conscience. Aaron Turner contributed some to the buzzkill part, but it's not all him. No reason JK could not have performed, behaved, developed, and dealt with negotiations like his '21 classmate Moses.
In terms of legacy: I know it's not fair to force him to bear the weight of the Wiseman debacle in the previous draft, but taken together the two are going to go down in Warriors lore as a brutal lesson in the pitfalls of drafting for physical attributes and imaginary upside in the absence of any obvious hoops IQ or feel for the game. And/or: a brutal lesson in not letting Lacob's fascination with said imaginary upside override smarter basketball people, take your pick.
Hindsight is 20:20 — I was pretty stoked with both picks at the time they made them — but it's painful to ponder the might-have-beens if we had picked, say, Haliburton and Jalen Johnson, or Haliburton and Sengun. Thank GOODNESS for '22 in any case...
Anyway, au revoir, Jonathan. All the best in ATL...
#No. I really wanted it to work out. I put Irrationally Good Feeling bets on JK to win MIP at the start of the season and even doubled down when he seemed to be playing with the system... But for whatever reason things just frustratingly didn't work out and so I'm going with the criteria, would I want them back on the team? Unlike JK, hard pass.
@EA - since we are a fan driven community, and so many of our fans have deep rooted interests in Dubs players, and even though i voted for JK, I still want to hear from @Asher - I hope you are doing fine my fan friend and can come back here soon!
Good to know. When regulars disappear there is always a small worry it's for personal but concerning reasons we don't hear about here. Good to know it's just a choice and may he return.
OT: updated tank proposal (actual proportions of points/penalites, etc would have to be adjusted)
At the beignning of the season, subtract points for:
- being in the lottery multiple years in a row (with a repeater penalty increasing the losses), getting a top-10 pick (increasing to -10 for the #1 pick), maybe even ducking the tax every season
After every game:
- each team gets a 33% chance each of: -losing a tank point if they lose -gaining a tank point if they win -no effect at all (maybe also have tank scenarios - gaining a point for losing or losing a point for winning, so that the best teams don't get the best picks)
These odds would randomly be modified by up to +- 10% after each game.
- Losing streaks would cost tank points per loss (increasing per loss)
- Every 20 games (played by all teams), the bottom 2 teams would be eliminated from consideration (this could be done by tank points or maybe by record). Another way to do it could be to randomly eliminate 1 team each from the (non-playoff) top 1/3, middle 1/3 and bottom 1/3.
At the end of the season, add up the points. Not sure what to do with the play-in losers. Maybe not have them in the lottery?
My subjective criteria for HWFL is a guy that will always feel like a Warrior to me. JK already doesn't feel like one.
Seemed like a good teammate, completely understood his frustrations (and Kerr's frustrations as well), and had some fun moments. But just didn't get better. I won't be actively rooting for or against him, but it will be annoying if he applies himself elsewhere and turns into a winning player. I don't see it happening in Atlanta.
Without really wanting to make a big debate out of this all (again) but rather for the purposes of thinking about how to vote, I just wanna share once more the question I have to ask myself about JK and his potential as an NBA player:
If JK *did not* have use of the insanely elite athleticism he has both been gifted with and earned by working on his body, what sort of basketball player would or could he be? (Not hypothesizing a situation where he's like an ordinary schlub, but if his athleticism was about average for a professional)
I note with respect the varied opinions on here but ultimately I really do think the voting for HWFL just comes down to whether you like or didn't like the person being voted for.
Omari Spellman (Warrior for one year) made the list. As did Glenn Robinson III and Thunder the Mascot and the non-Warrior legend that is Allen Iverson
Kevin Durant didn't make the list. Neither did Tim Hardaway or Harrison Barnes. Or the absolute Warrior legend that is Šarūnas Marčiulionis :-)
Arguments in terms of longevity, achievement, or ability don't quite make sense when you look through who made the list and those who didn't.
I like the back story of Jonathan Kuminga, the good memories of him as a Warrior and I guess also because he's a fellow francophone. Just personal reasons. So I'm voting #YES and I hope he does well.
I am a yes vote on this.
I still think he has starting potential on a contender in this league. He may even still have that All-star ceiling. I think his floor is a rotation piece for a contender, but he has yet to figure that out. He needs reps, and he didn't get them here.
But, he was here for 4+ years. He was a piece in a 'chip window, and we have graced players with smaller roles with the HWFL title as well. He represents part of a warriors legacy of might-have-beens and what-if's. And like it or not, that's part of the legacy that MDJ and Joe have written these last 4 years during Steph's Indian Summer of his career.
I'll always be a JK fan, in spite of all the drama leaking out now. And I will follow his future adventures.
#NO
#NO
Thought about slotting him in under my same TJD criteria ("what's the harm?") But he was too much of a disappointment — no notable improvement in any aspect of his game over four-plus seasons — and too much of a general buzzkill over the last two-plus seasons to vote yes in good conscience. Aaron Turner contributed some to the buzzkill part, but it's not all him. No reason JK could not have performed, behaved, developed, and dealt with negotiations like his '21 classmate Moses.
In terms of legacy: I know it's not fair to force him to bear the weight of the Wiseman debacle in the previous draft, but taken together the two are going to go down in Warriors lore as a brutal lesson in the pitfalls of drafting for physical attributes and imaginary upside in the absence of any obvious hoops IQ or feel for the game. And/or: a brutal lesson in not letting Lacob's fascination with said imaginary upside override smarter basketball people, take your pick.
Hindsight is 20:20 — I was pretty stoked with both picks at the time they made them — but it's painful to ponder the might-have-beens if we had picked, say, Haliburton and Jalen Johnson, or Haliburton and Sengun. Thank GOODNESS for '22 in any case...
Anyway, au revoir, Jonathan. All the best in ATL...
#No. I really wanted it to work out. I put Irrationally Good Feeling bets on JK to win MIP at the start of the season and even doubled down when he seemed to be playing with the system... But for whatever reason things just frustratingly didn't work out and so I'm going with the criteria, would I want them back on the team? Unlike JK, hard pass.
No
Without a dubt
#NO
#no
I wish him the best of luck and really wanted him to figure it out with the warriors, but it was never meant to be.
#NO
Hopefully he finds his place in the league.
@EA - since we are a fan driven community, and so many of our fans have deep rooted interests in Dubs players, and even though i voted for JK, I still want to hear from @Asher - I hope you are doing fine my fan friend and can come back here soon!
So Asher was JK's burner account all along?!
FYI Asher told me he was stepping away from the site in early January. When he’s ready to return, he will.
Good to know. When regulars disappear there is always a small worry it's for personal but concerning reasons we don't hear about here. Good to know it's just a choice and may he return.
OT: updated tank proposal (actual proportions of points/penalites, etc would have to be adjusted)
At the beignning of the season, subtract points for:
- being in the lottery multiple years in a row (with a repeater penalty increasing the losses), getting a top-10 pick (increasing to -10 for the #1 pick), maybe even ducking the tax every season
After every game:
- each team gets a 33% chance each of: -losing a tank point if they lose -gaining a tank point if they win -no effect at all (maybe also have tank scenarios - gaining a point for losing or losing a point for winning, so that the best teams don't get the best picks)
These odds would randomly be modified by up to +- 10% after each game.
- Losing streaks would cost tank points per loss (increasing per loss)
- Every 20 games (played by all teams), the bottom 2 teams would be eliminated from consideration (this could be done by tank points or maybe by record). Another way to do it could be to randomly eliminate 1 team each from the (non-playoff) top 1/3, middle 1/3 and bottom 1/3.
At the end of the season, add up the points. Not sure what to do with the play-in losers. Maybe not have them in the lottery?
#YES. But not until he fires his agent.
Would potentially be a career saving move for him honestly
#NO.
I wish JK well but he was not a good fit on this Warrior team.
Did not feel like he was on the team for a lot of the time before he was traded.
So I’m left with few good memories of his stay and don’t want him enshrined as a Warrior.
Ask me about Buddy though!
Buddy: Feb 14 poll
#NO. The negatives outweigh the positives.
Nicely said.
What a weird weekend of controversy. You know we're doomed when Curling can't even escape controversy.
#NO
My subjective criteria for HWFL is a guy that will always feel like a Warrior to me. JK already doesn't feel like one.
Seemed like a good teammate, completely understood his frustrations (and Kerr's frustrations as well), and had some fun moments. But just didn't get better. I won't be actively rooting for or against him, but it will be annoying if he applies himself elsewhere and turns into a winning player. I don't see it happening in Atlanta.
Well-said.
Without really wanting to make a big debate out of this all (again) but rather for the purposes of thinking about how to vote, I just wanna share once more the question I have to ask myself about JK and his potential as an NBA player:
If JK *did not* have use of the insanely elite athleticism he has both been gifted with and earned by working on his body, what sort of basketball player would or could he be? (Not hypothesizing a situation where he's like an ordinary schlub, but if his athleticism was about average for a professional)