I'm lways lurking. The sign and trade for Buddy I just saw announced is huge, backing up the already stellar draft netting of Lindy and Post, the UDFA signing of Beekman, plus effectively targeted Melton and Anderson signings. Do these all 'make up' for Klay? Maybe not emotionally, but I love the D-first philosophy, getting younger, and shaking things up.
I'm digging the new lineup. Honestly, it looks like a runway to 2025-26. The Mavs took a step back in 2022-23, picked up Lively, then got back into the finals. The Warriors are regenerating like Dr. Who, and it takes a little time. Melton and Beekman will allow us to move off GP2, even if Melton is a one year rental. Post (and Garuba?) set up the move off of Looney. Hield replaces Klay's hot shooting with no defense.
And the hidden gem? Slo-Mo is the insurance we need should an opportunity arise to include Draymond in a trade that allows him to "ring-chase" like his brother Klay. BTW, I said "insurance". Point being, by slowly replacing the old guard, the front office has pulled itself off the canvas, beat the 8-count, and may finally be putting some pressure on Kerr to adapt to his players vs. the players always adapting to his one unyielding style of play.
Once Hield is signed, we'll be very close to the first apron, which we can't go over.
AFAIK, the only way it could happen is by sending out Wiggs, GP2, or Loon in a sign and trade (which we'd have to compensate the team that signed Hayward for)
But, in any case, I'd rather have any of those three guys than oft-injured Hayward.
He is UFA so it depends on his price. He made $33.3M this past season but surely isn't worth anywhere near that now. Like SOL says, he looked bad with OKC but maybe there were extenuating circumstances. He is 34. How much does he still have left in the tank? Dunno.
He was NOT good with the Thunder. I don't know if it was because he was a bad fit with the team or if he was playing through injuries, but he looked awful in OKC.
The Kings, to my knowledge, earlier this week were close to a deal," he said during Wednesday's No Cap Room podcast (40:30 mark). "I do think that, based off of conversations I've had. I can't say more than that, but there were calls made to people around the NBA that would have indicated that talks have been legitimate there."
He added that both the Golden State Warriors and San Antonio Spurs have reportedly shown interest, but that the Jazz are "conducting their business with a 10 percent chance they're going to move him."
In other news, ATHENS is hosting one of the 4 Pre-Olympic tournaments; winner from each tournament will roundout the last 4 national teams to qualify for the OLYMPICS. GIANNIS went for 32 points in 19 minutes PT, on 11-11 perfect shooting, in GREECE'S opener tonight, in a 27 pt win, 109-82, over THE DOMINICAN National TEAM. NICK CALATHES pitched-in with a 12pt-11assist, double-double, in 25minsPT. EGYPT is Greece's opponent tonight, Thursday, and will probably have to go through DUNCIC's SLOVANIA after EGYPT, and lastly, CROATIA in the FINAL for the COVETED OLYMPIC BERTH.
You did/are doing a phenomenal job ERIC, along with Mr. PERKS, of shepherding us through the NEW ERA OF NBA DRAFT, FREE AGENCY, AND DUB FO APRON-BALKING. LOL. Brave New World of NBA WARRIOR DYNASTY-CONTINUATION AVOIDANCE. Que Sera, Sera....Anyway, THANK YOU. As for KLAY, METHINKS DUBS HAD A LOT TO DO WITH HIS ''FORCING'' A SIGN AND TRADE. HIELD should be avoided...COACHING additions are OK...Doubt we will land anyone SIGNIFICANT for this year, i.e. game-changer, so we are going to need all the coaching creativity we can muster...
It’s the prisoner’s dilemma. If you’re the only sucker because everybody rightly stays away, you actually get a good deal. But as soon as a second sucker comes in, then the overbidding begins.
That’s my wish too. Said as much below. It might actually happen this time, because Lauri isn’t the HOF player that he’s clearly trying to boast him as, and the teams bidding know this.
I’ve turned it over in my mind, and I think I can accept overpaying for Lauri Markkanen. It would be an overpay because (1) there are multiple bidders, (2) Ainge only cares about ripping you off and not finding the good mutual trade, (3) Markkanen has built-in injury risk.
But in my limited imagination, this is the best chance GSW has of getting a star that is in their 20s. It is also their best chance of getting a star of any age who fits really well with Steph. This will be the best chance of winning a title with Steph, who probably only has at most 1-2 more years of playing consistently at an All-Star level.
I’m also okay with it not happening.
If GSW doesn’t get Lauri, I am curious what they pivot to next. The lineup today seems like a bit of a jumble of good medium sized defenders with unreliable offense. It’s a little hard to see what the best 5 lineup would be and how they would play.
Just had a weird moment .. I was thinking about who the starters might be if no trade. In my head, I went: Steph, JK, Lindy Waters .. and then I had the momentary thought that I needed to find a spot for Klay.
Oops, wrong. It's going to take some getting used to.
The main question with acquiring Markkanen is the price we have to pay, I'm assuming. It would be a no brainer if it was a simple trade or FA signing. It would probably entail most of our future young players which would hamstring the Warriors for years and still not guarantee a title. Do you know what the asking price is?
Nobody knows. My wild guess is asking price is at least Kuminga plus players, plus three 1sts and 2 draft swaps, and GSW is at 3 1sts plus any 2-3 young players not named Kuminga.
I get it, tbh… JK has the same runway to a big extension as Markkanen. They would have to like him as the first piece of their next core more than they like Markkanen.
Im at peace with Podz, salary filler, 2026, 2027 (swap), 2028, 2029 (swap). Anything more than two first rounders and two swaps I’d tell them to go kick rocks. I’m genuinely expecting Steph to make it to 2027-2028. Then maybe trade Lauri after we suck and get back that 2029/2030 from someone else
Also, if Markkanen remains good on the Warriors after the trade then they can trade him again and recoup some(/all?) of the picks they send out after the Curry era ends.
Hawks traded three first round picks and a pick swap to get Dejounte Murray in 2022, had him for two seasons, then traded him to the Pelicans for Dyson Daniels (a 2022 lottery pick) and two first round picks.
EDIT: Although to be fair, the post-Curry Warrior picks are probably really valuable, the picks they get in a future trade might not be as valuable.
I think the idea is that they retain a superstar after Curry retires so the team is not bereft of either assets or talent. Any move they make, I'm hoping they keep in mind their future.
LM is a superstar? One All Star team two season ago, never led the league in anything or even close, no All NBA except the All Rookie team. How is he a superstar? Or is that not what you meant?
to add on to your edit, the post-Curry warriors picks would be super valuable *if* you decided to trade Markkanen, but when we're negotiating to trade *for* Markkanen they're not as valuable since we're adding Markkanen to the team, compounding the sell low buy high scenario.
Yeah, although there's a risk if Markkanen slumps or suffers a major injury or something that affects his trade value. But if he remains good, the "mortgage the future" stuff is kinda overblown imo.
If they sign Hield, Moody's minutes are going to suffer. I would think they would trade him to give him an opportunity to play more. We don't need so many guards. Getting Markkanen is a good move if we don't have to give up all our young players.
He's very fashionable right now because of how the league has changed. The big increase in 3 point shooting efficiency has led to a weird kind of parity. Every team can win if they get hot from three. The games that are in contention are those where three point shooting is comparable and it becomes all about the possession battle. and who can the most shots up Podz had easily the best +/- on the team due to his impact on that: rebound rate, limited turnovers, deflections etc. Personally, I don't know if this will last. It may well be that in a few years nobody will play if they can't shoot AND aren't 6'7 plus. Might be good to sell high on him. Dunno.
The question is would give up kuminga for him? That's tough. Lauri is currently a better fit with steph but I really want to see how kuminga develops this season.
If he shoots around 38% from three, has a bit better handles, and plays bit better defense that is a monster in the making.
But 3 first round picks and a few other players, let's go!
I don’t think the holdup is Kuminga. I think Utah doesn’t want the right to have to pay Kuminga this next offseason and the Warriors don’t want to part with him. I think the holdup are those picks into 2031. Ainge smart enough to be asking for 2029, 31, and 33. Warriors probably willing to give up the pre-Steph retirement picks.
Giving up Kuminga for Lauri would be a no brainer, but who else and what else do we have to give up? Lauri is a much more valuable asset than JK. Playing on a Kerr team, he will look like a SF, and destroy his defenders. Kuminga has a long way to go to develop. Ceiling is not always reached and you can't teach size. Markkanen is closest to a KD player, albeit different.
The conclusion I think I’ve come to here is that I’d rather give up our young players instead of picks (or the picks have to be top 4 protected). It’s quite likely that we’re going to be somewhere between mediocre and absolutely terrible post Steph, and not having your own picks in that situation and not being able to rebuild is just absolutely brutal. Being able to tank in the future post-Steph is more important to me than hanging on to our current youngsters even though I’m really attached to them. Hypothetically, I think I’d rather give up Moody + Podz + Kuminga rather than 3 picks + 2 swaps.
That being said, I don’t think Lauri makes GSW a title contender, and I’m not convinced they’d even be in the top half of the west. That means that there are limits to how much I’d want to give up overall. I think the most I’d be willing to do is 2 *protected* picks and any 2 of our young players (+ Looney/GPII as needed for salary matching)…but I doubt that gets it done and I’m fine with that
I think they would absolutely be a contender with Steph, Dray, and Lauri, both before and after Steph retires. Who else has the stature that Lauri has with the team bereft of Steph? They will still need a supporting cast and that's what I'm most concerned with. How much do you have to give up to get Lauri?
Ainge is definitely asking for the entire enchilada, from all teams. I hope they’re all pointing and laughing at him, and he ends up stuck with a disgruntled player from Finland
FWIW I heard on 95.7 from some lady that either worked for Utah or Cleveland who said LM's injury history is pretty much overblown. Many of those missed games were due to tanking purposes or sitting out because they were extra "careful" because he was on a team going nowhere and could have played if it was necessary
The injury risk is the only reason to hesitate. But our guy Steph had really similar questions, and that ended up getting the team a big discount on his salary. Would it have been the right team move to NOT overpay if he demanded the max, and let him walk? In retrospect, that would have been a disaster. That’s where I’m at on the overpay. I know it’s a risk, but a worthwhile one.
Kings have talked to Bulls about DeRozan sign and trade, per source. Spurs also now another possibility. Despite DeRozan interest in Miami, Heat not in position to give him what he's seeking at this time... Heat will hope opportunity on some player it wants arises this summer.
All right, put me down for a no on Markkanen. W/O any inside knowledge or authoritative reporting, I just feel that the price is too steep. Let someone else get fleeced!
(Super tinfoil hat theory: Kerr, Pop and Brown are all working together and no one will trade for him to teach Ainge a lesson)
In my mind, the longer this drama goes on, the likelihood of it happening for us go way down. Thats my feeling anyway. Mike is going to play this smart
This episode of Locked On Warriors has Kylen talking with one of the Jazz announcers about Lauri. He absolutely loves LM as a player and person and, from the Jazz perspective, doesn’t think they should trade him.
He also isn’t interested in Kuminga for the Jazz as he doesn’t like the chances of his 3-ball developing.
Sorry, after wasting a lot of my free time here, I had to choose between spending my remaining free time listening to podcasters who don't actually have any more facts than we do or watching an episode of the BART ... choice was clear.
He was always going to need extra time to develop in the NBA. Playing zero college ball was always the reason for this. He's been steadily improving, and I don’t think he’s reached his ceiling.
In the video I saw, his release definitely looks much better. It’s a hype video, but it was noticeable. Give him another 2 months to get comfortable with it, and let’s see
Talking to some teams tonight and it sounds like what's being worked on now is expanding some of the previously agreed upon trades. There are also talks of tying some deals together into bigger deals.
Essentially, teams are trying to find ways to make mutually beneficial trades.
---------------------------
Not directly related to us but I imagine that's what the silence right now is all about
I think I lean more towards trading for depressed value and Ingram fits that bill. NOP unlike Utah has to shed salary in the next year. Everyone in the league knows this. Markkanen’s value will never be higher. Also fit. Ingram fits in seamlessly at the 3. Markkanen is a 4 so unless you’re looking to trade Kuminga, thats Dray, JK and Markkanen who man the same position.
Doesn't that assume traditional positions? Markannen is a stretch big so he's at the perimeter on offense at least some of the time. JK wants to get to the rim, although hopefully his shot is improving. They don't have to be in each other's way. Meanwhile, JK can defend wings and some guards at the perimeter, so defensively he can be a 3.
That said, I think Ingram would be a strong addition — preferable to Hield. He's not a great defender but he has the physical ability to improve at that end if he's open to working at it, as Wiggs did. However, I don't know how the money works to pay Ingram while staying under the first tax apron.
Super down for BI too but the only thing is I don't know how he feels about Kerr and our system. He did get benched last year in FIBA so maybe there's some type of feeling there
It’d be for a lethal offense in this lineup. Hes still a great passer…he can take the ball up in any situation. Sharp shooters in Steph Hield and Lauri as options…or pick n roll with JK w the defense spread out.
Yup. And BI has secondary play making skills from the Forward slot which the Warriors' system covets. Highest Assists per 36 on the team! That's way more valuable on a team like the Dubs.
We'd have to trade a good bit of salary to make that work though. We're hard capped at the first apron, without a lot of headroom left, and BI makes $36M.
We already have a lot of forwards who like to handle the rock (Dray, SloMo, Kuminga) and not enough guys who can fill it up without pounding the rock all day.
We’re also still *really* small overall, and a 7’-0” 240 guy addresses that better than a 6’-8” 190 lb. guy.
I really don’t mind the idea of losing this sweepstakes. Unpopular opinion now maybe, but when Lauri goes down after 60 games and Kuminga is getting hot for the playoff push …we’ll remember this moment
I don’t know what substantial means here, but sounds like a negotiation is afoot… if the Kings aren’t offering Murray, I don’t view their offer as “substantial”…
Spurs have a lot of picks from Atlanta and all their own picks… if Ainge wants picks, and the Spurs are ready to build their next core, it’s gonna be hard to top their offer
Big if though… The Spurs might just decide to aim for Cooper Flagg or whatever his name is with their pick and the Hawks’ pick, rather than take Lauri and have to pay him in one season’s time.
I'm lways lurking. The sign and trade for Buddy I just saw announced is huge, backing up the already stellar draft netting of Lindy and Post, the UDFA signing of Beekman, plus effectively targeted Melton and Anderson signings. Do these all 'make up' for Klay? Maybe not emotionally, but I love the D-first philosophy, getting younger, and shaking things up.
I'm digging the new lineup. Honestly, it looks like a runway to 2025-26. The Mavs took a step back in 2022-23, picked up Lively, then got back into the finals. The Warriors are regenerating like Dr. Who, and it takes a little time. Melton and Beekman will allow us to move off GP2, even if Melton is a one year rental. Post (and Garuba?) set up the move off of Looney. Hield replaces Klay's hot shooting with no defense.
And the hidden gem? Slo-Mo is the insurance we need should an opportunity arise to include Draymond in a trade that allows him to "ring-chase" like his brother Klay. BTW, I said "insurance". Point being, by slowly replacing the old guard, the front office has pulled itself off the canvas, beat the 8-count, and may finally be putting some pressure on Kerr to adapt to his players vs. the players always adapting to his one unyielding style of play.
Solomon also provides insurance if Draymond gets suspended again.
You're hitting some fun autocorrect issues today. :)
Oops…Slomo!
Let's get Gordon Hayward
I am not sure there is any free agent or trade target I want less.
Let's not.🤣
Care to elaborate how?
Once Hield is signed, we'll be very close to the first apron, which we can't go over.
AFAIK, the only way it could happen is by sending out Wiggs, GP2, or Loon in a sign and trade (which we'd have to compensate the team that signed Hayward for)
But, in any case, I'd rather have any of those three guys than oft-injured Hayward.
He is UFA so it depends on his price. He made $33.3M this past season but surely isn't worth anywhere near that now. Like SOL says, he looked bad with OKC but maybe there were extenuating circumstances. He is 34. How much does he still have left in the tank? Dunno.
Vet min if he wants to play this year.
He was NOT good with the Thunder. I don't know if it was because he was a bad fit with the team or if he was playing through injuries, but he looked awful in OKC.
Maybe Mr Young below is correct.
If so, moving on:
The Kings, to my knowledge, earlier this week were close to a deal," he said during Wednesday's No Cap Room podcast (40:30 mark). "I do think that, based off of conversations I've had. I can't say more than that, but there were calls made to people around the NBA that would have indicated that talks have been legitimate there."
He added that both the Golden State Warriors and San Antonio Spurs have reportedly shown interest, but that the Jazz are "conducting their business with a 10 percent chance they're going to move him."
I really hope MDJ and company haven’t pot committed themselves and end up selling the farm…
In other news, ATHENS is hosting one of the 4 Pre-Olympic tournaments; winner from each tournament will roundout the last 4 national teams to qualify for the OLYMPICS. GIANNIS went for 32 points in 19 minutes PT, on 11-11 perfect shooting, in GREECE'S opener tonight, in a 27 pt win, 109-82, over THE DOMINICAN National TEAM. NICK CALATHES pitched-in with a 12pt-11assist, double-double, in 25minsPT. EGYPT is Greece's opponent tonight, Thursday, and will probably have to go through DUNCIC's SLOVANIA after EGYPT, and lastly, CROATIA in the FINAL for the COVETED OLYMPIC BERTH.
Did the USA win the last time?
The Kris Dunn sign-and-trade from Jazz to the Clippers and Buddy Hield sign-and-trade from 76ers to Warriors are still WIP as of tonight.
Scott Brooks and Nate McMillan scuffle during the 1993 playoffs (no commentary)
https://streamable.com/sf6fky
You did/are doing a phenomenal job ERIC, along with Mr. PERKS, of shepherding us through the NEW ERA OF NBA DRAFT, FREE AGENCY, AND DUB FO APRON-BALKING. LOL. Brave New World of NBA WARRIOR DYNASTY-CONTINUATION AVOIDANCE. Que Sera, Sera....Anyway, THANK YOU. As for KLAY, METHINKS DUBS HAD A LOT TO DO WITH HIS ''FORCING'' A SIGN AND TRADE. HIELD should be avoided...COACHING additions are OK...Doubt we will land anyone SIGNIFICANT for this year, i.e. game-changer, so we are going to need all the coaching creativity we can muster...
The more I read about this the more I think it's all BS. They aren't trading him. Geez.
Oh he’s getting traded. Ainge is just playing everyone like a fiddle to get the max amount that he can get. Someone will pony up…
I think people talk up the guy too much…
Plays right into Danny’s hands. The more people talk, the more over value he gains
Just once, I wish everyone would walk away and leave Ainge holding the bag. When you f with people too often, eventually they get tired of it.
It’s the prisoner’s dilemma. If you’re the only sucker because everybody rightly stays away, you actually get a good deal. But as soon as a second sucker comes in, then the overbidding begins.
LOL....There is always at least one sucker GMing in this league...
Didn’t that kind of happen to Scott Boras recently?
That’s my wish too. Said as much below. It might actually happen this time, because Lauri isn’t the HOF player that he’s clearly trying to boast him as, and the teams bidding know this.
I’ve turned it over in my mind, and I think I can accept overpaying for Lauri Markkanen. It would be an overpay because (1) there are multiple bidders, (2) Ainge only cares about ripping you off and not finding the good mutual trade, (3) Markkanen has built-in injury risk.
But in my limited imagination, this is the best chance GSW has of getting a star that is in their 20s. It is also their best chance of getting a star of any age who fits really well with Steph. This will be the best chance of winning a title with Steph, who probably only has at most 1-2 more years of playing consistently at an All-Star level.
I’m also okay with it not happening.
If GSW doesn’t get Lauri, I am curious what they pivot to next. The lineup today seems like a bit of a jumble of good medium sized defenders with unreliable offense. It’s a little hard to see what the best 5 lineup would be and how they would play.
Just had a weird moment .. I was thinking about who the starters might be if no trade. In my head, I went: Steph, JK, Lindy Waters .. and then I had the momentary thought that I needed to find a spot for Klay.
Oops, wrong. It's going to take some getting used to.
Also, I think he has only one year left on his contract. So would be an unrestricted Free Agent after the next season.
I would not be in favor of giving up young players for what could possibly be one year rental.... and especially if it could be an "overpay".
At what price point does the team mortgage the future to fit in with Steph's remaining high level years?
What would be an acceptable outcome for next season?
Getting out of the play-in? Home court (1-4) seed in Western Conference?
Personally that would not be enough for me. NBA Finals with 7 games for a Championship?
Yes!
Could Lauri Markkanen be what it takes to get there? Possibly, but it seems like a large risk.
I am comfortable with the current roster... maybe add Buddy Heild, and keep young talent and especially future draft picks for the future.
Surely they would talk to him first to get some kind of reassurances. Right?
Yes, Markkanen will be UFA next summer, as will Branden Ingram. Ingram's salary is twice that of Markkanen by the way.
The main question with acquiring Markkanen is the price we have to pay, I'm assuming. It would be a no brainer if it was a simple trade or FA signing. It would probably entail most of our future young players which would hamstring the Warriors for years and still not guarantee a title. Do you know what the asking price is?
Nobody knows. My wild guess is asking price is at least Kuminga plus players, plus three 1sts and 2 draft swaps, and GSW is at 3 1sts plus any 2-3 young players not named Kuminga.
I keep hearing they won’t want Kuminga.
I get it, tbh… JK has the same runway to a big extension as Markkanen. They would have to like him as the first piece of their next core more than they like Markkanen.
Does anyone have to ask how I feel about that deal? I hope Dunleavy tells Ainge to go fly a kite
Such language. This is a family site, you know.
That's an awful lot. Give them Kuminga and the picks, but keep the young players. It would definitely help if we had more specifics but we don't.
Im at peace with Podz, salary filler, 2026, 2027 (swap), 2028, 2029 (swap). Anything more than two first rounders and two swaps I’d tell them to go kick rocks. I’m genuinely expecting Steph to make it to 2027-2028. Then maybe trade Lauri after we suck and get back that 2029/2030 from someone else
Also, if Markkanen remains good on the Warriors after the trade then they can trade him again and recoup some(/all?) of the picks they send out after the Curry era ends.
Hawks traded three first round picks and a pick swap to get Dejounte Murray in 2022, had him for two seasons, then traded him to the Pelicans for Dyson Daniels (a 2022 lottery pick) and two first round picks.
EDIT: Although to be fair, the post-Curry Warrior picks are probably really valuable, the picks they get in a future trade might not be as valuable.
I think the idea is that they retain a superstar after Curry retires so the team is not bereft of either assets or talent. Any move they make, I'm hoping they keep in mind their future.
LM is a superstar? One All Star team two season ago, never led the league in anything or even close, no All NBA except the All Rookie team. How is he a superstar? Or is that not what you meant?
Close enough.........
Low bar.
You're not getting nearly as much back for a $50M LM who has probably suffered 1-3 more injuries.
OTOH, his salary will be more of a bargain than the deals signed after the new tv money kicks in.
to add on to your edit, the post-Curry warriors picks would be super valuable *if* you decided to trade Markkanen, but when we're negotiating to trade *for* Markkanen they're not as valuable since we're adding Markkanen to the team, compounding the sell low buy high scenario.
Oh, that's a really good point. You will get some picks back when the dubs go full tank mode for 2-3 years
Yeah, although there's a risk if Markkanen slumps or suffers a major injury or something that affects his trade value. But if he remains good, the "mortgage the future" stuff is kinda overblown imo.
It would just suck to see moody or podz go.
I'm more OK with moody going even though I think he will blossom when a team really commits to him.
As for podz, he could be a special player. He's worth several first round picks considering he's a hit as a pick.
If they sign Hield, Moody's minutes are going to suffer. I would think they would trade him to give him an opportunity to play more. We don't need so many guards. Getting Markkanen is a good move if we don't have to give up all our young players.
Im almost guaranteeing that Klutch not banishing him to a rebuild in Utah. I expect Moody to start or at a minimum be first or second off bench
I'd trade Kuminga before either of those guys tbh, but the Warriors won't so whatever
He's very fashionable right now because of how the league has changed. The big increase in 3 point shooting efficiency has led to a weird kind of parity. Every team can win if they get hot from three. The games that are in contention are those where three point shooting is comparable and it becomes all about the possession battle. and who can the most shots up Podz had easily the best +/- on the team due to his impact on that: rebound rate, limited turnovers, deflections etc. Personally, I don't know if this will last. It may well be that in a few years nobody will play if they can't shoot AND aren't 6'7 plus. Might be good to sell high on him. Dunno.
Podz can shoot? Since when?
The question is would give up kuminga for him? That's tough. Lauri is currently a better fit with steph but I really want to see how kuminga develops this season.
If he shoots around 38% from three, has a bit better handles, and plays bit better defense that is a monster in the making.
But 3 first round picks and a few other players, let's go!
I don’t think the holdup is Kuminga. I think Utah doesn’t want the right to have to pay Kuminga this next offseason and the Warriors don’t want to part with him. I think the holdup are those picks into 2031. Ainge smart enough to be asking for 2029, 31, and 33. Warriors probably willing to give up the pre-Steph retirement picks.
Giving up Kuminga for Lauri would be a no brainer, but who else and what else do we have to give up? Lauri is a much more valuable asset than JK. Playing on a Kerr team, he will look like a SF, and destroy his defenders. Kuminga has a long way to go to develop. Ceiling is not always reached and you can't teach size. Markkanen is closest to a KD player, albeit different.
I can see arguments each way. If kuminga is included, the jazz need to lower their other demands.
But good thing I'm just an arm chair GM. Most of my in depth knowledge comes from this forum and few podcast we all have access to.
I beieve at this point there’s better offers on the table than what we can offer without JK in the mix
If Mike pulls off some magic w a 3rd team involved, then that’d be something. Not sure if he can pull the trade off without it
What is included in your supposed deal?
The conclusion I think I’ve come to here is that I’d rather give up our young players instead of picks (or the picks have to be top 4 protected). It’s quite likely that we’re going to be somewhere between mediocre and absolutely terrible post Steph, and not having your own picks in that situation and not being able to rebuild is just absolutely brutal. Being able to tank in the future post-Steph is more important to me than hanging on to our current youngsters even though I’m really attached to them. Hypothetically, I think I’d rather give up Moody + Podz + Kuminga rather than 3 picks + 2 swaps.
That being said, I don’t think Lauri makes GSW a title contender, and I’m not convinced they’d even be in the top half of the west. That means that there are limits to how much I’d want to give up overall. I think the most I’d be willing to do is 2 *protected* picks and any 2 of our young players (+ Looney/GPII as needed for salary matching)…but I doubt that gets it done and I’m fine with that
I think they would absolutely be a contender with Steph, Dray, and Lauri, both before and after Steph retires. Who else has the stature that Lauri has with the team bereft of Steph? They will still need a supporting cast and that's what I'm most concerned with. How much do you have to give up to get Lauri?
Ainge is definitely asking for the entire enchilada, from all teams. I hope they’re all pointing and laughing at him, and he ends up stuck with a disgruntled player from Finland
FWIW I heard on 95.7 from some lady that either worked for Utah or Cleveland who said LM's injury history is pretty much overblown. Many of those missed games were due to tanking purposes or sitting out because they were extra "careful" because he was on a team going nowhere and could have played if it was necessary
But for a guy that has never played anywhere near a full season, how likely would it be for him to be effective in the playoffs when it matters most?
He’s a sure injury liability. That’s my main issue. Just a matter of when and how bad it will be
As far as what would be next if/when this pursuit fails, Ingram is a logical choice if Nola wants to play ball. A choice I personally like a lot more
The injury risk is the only reason to hesitate. But our guy Steph had really similar questions, and that ended up getting the team a big discount on his salary. Would it have been the right team move to NOT overpay if he demanded the max, and let him walk? In retrospect, that would have been a disaster. That’s where I’m at on the overpay. I know it’s a risk, but a worthwhile one.
I don't think it has ever stopped anyone from getting their man, if it is indeed, their man. I think a guy like Lacob will try to pull the trigger.
Steph just had ankle issues. LM injuries span his entire body.
2017 - quad, ankle, back
2018 - back, elbow
2019 - hip
2020 - ankle, calf
2021 - shoulder, leg
2022 - ankle
2023 - hip, knee, back, hand, hamstring, quad, shoulder
I have a feeling that last year is utah just tanking, but still he could be made out of glass.
2024 - toe, knee, arm, ass (aka “Tony Armas”)
LMAO...finally found someone with more injuries than I had/have...
Yeesh. The very definition of a glass cannon
Definitely could turn into a situation like Steph or even AD.
Lauri is going into his 7th season right? It could happen.
Just pushing all of the chips in for a glass cannon guy scares the crap out of me!
I’m with you though. If it ends up not happening, I’m ok with it.
Lauri not an upgrade? I think you are underestimating him on the Dubs.
That’s a much more thoughtful way to putting it than I have…I don’t get it either
Mike is probably thinking on that level as well. Ainge is asking for too much so he’ll concede is my guess
What do you think about shifting to an Ingram trade?
Kings have talked to Bulls about DeRozan sign and trade, per source. Spurs also now another possibility. Despite DeRozan interest in Miami, Heat not in position to give him what he's seeking at this time... Heat will hope opportunity on some player it wants arises this summer.
https://x.com/flasportsbuzz/status/1808689071746920466
So take them out of the Markannen running?
I was nothing but Lavine or Derozan on the Kings
I think Spurs and the Kings are trying to get either Markennen or DeRozan, not both.
That would raise eyebrows, for sure.
All right, put me down for a no on Markkanen. W/O any inside knowledge or authoritative reporting, I just feel that the price is too steep. Let someone else get fleeced!
(Super tinfoil hat theory: Kerr, Pop and Brown are all working together and no one will trade for him to teach Ainge a lesson)
What is the price?
In my mind, the longer this drama goes on, the likelihood of it happening for us go way down. Thats my feeling anyway. Mike is going to play this smart
Go for Ingram next.
This episode of Locked On Warriors has Kylen talking with one of the Jazz announcers about Lauri. He absolutely loves LM as a player and person and, from the Jazz perspective, doesn’t think they should trade him.
He also isn’t interested in Kuminga for the Jazz as he doesn’t like the chances of his 3-ball developing.
https://youtu.be/hMHKtOfgvsk?si=Yxq-tjV1LtF-alD9
All depends on Lauri being open to staying with the jazz. If he plans on staying, then keep him. If he's gonna walk, trade him.
Balls in Laurie's court
Sorry, after wasting a lot of my free time here, I had to choose between spending my remaining free time listening to podcasters who don't actually have any more facts than we do or watching an episode of the BART ... choice was clear.
How confident are we that JK has improved his 3pt shot/release to a point he can be a plus playing sf now?
He was always going to need extra time to develop in the NBA. Playing zero college ball was always the reason for this. He's been steadily improving, and I don’t think he’s reached his ceiling.
I am irrationally confident this is the year he will finally put it together
In the video I saw, his release definitely looks much better. It’s a hype video, but it was noticeable. Give him another 2 months to get comfortable with it, and let’s see
TBD until we can see him in real NBA games
https://x.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1808667872073265431
Talking to some teams tonight and it sounds like what's being worked on now is expanding some of the previously agreed upon trades. There are also talks of tying some deals together into bigger deals.
Essentially, teams are trying to find ways to make mutually beneficial trades.
---------------------------
Not directly related to us but I imagine that's what the silence right now is all about
Makes sense. It ain’t over until the dotted line gets some ink/blood on it
I think I lean more towards trading for depressed value and Ingram fits that bill. NOP unlike Utah has to shed salary in the next year. Everyone in the league knows this. Markkanen’s value will never be higher. Also fit. Ingram fits in seamlessly at the 3. Markkanen is a 4 so unless you’re looking to trade Kuminga, thats Dray, JK and Markkanen who man the same position.
Doesn't that assume traditional positions? Markannen is a stretch big so he's at the perimeter on offense at least some of the time. JK wants to get to the rim, although hopefully his shot is improving. They don't have to be in each other's way. Meanwhile, JK can defend wings and some guards at the perimeter, so defensively he can be a 3.
That said, I think Ingram would be a strong addition — preferable to Hield. He's not a great defender but he has the physical ability to improve at that end if he's open to working at it, as Wiggs did. However, I don't know how the money works to pay Ingram while staying under the first tax apron.
Super down for BI too but the only thing is I don't know how he feels about Kerr and our system. He did get benched last year in FIBA so maybe there's some type of feeling there
Draymond is a point forward…he can play the 3 in certain lineups
A SBDS lineup of Curry-Melton/Hield-Dray-Kuminga-Mark lineup would be lethal AF.
Are we talking offense or defense? Oh defense, you want Dray as a help defender as well which I would think puts him at 4 or 5.
It’d be for a lethal offense in this lineup. Hes still a great passer…he can take the ball up in any situation. Sharp shooters in Steph Hield and Lauri as options…or pick n roll with JK w the defense spread out.
I root for LM telling the spurs to pound sand and that he won't extend with the depressing his value.
But honestly, playing next to wemby would be so dope. So would steph of course.
Yup. And BI has secondary play making skills from the Forward slot which the Warriors' system covets. Highest Assists per 36 on the team! That's way more valuable on a team like the Dubs.
We'd have to trade a good bit of salary to make that work though. We're hard capped at the first apron, without a lot of headroom left, and BI makes $36M.
We already have a lot of forwards who like to handle the rock (Dray, SloMo, Kuminga) and not enough guys who can fill it up without pounding the rock all day.
We’re also still *really* small overall, and a 7’-0” 240 guy addresses that better than a 6’-8” 190 lb. guy.
He’s basically Shaun Livingston size.
According to @Tjonesonthenba the Kings the Warriors and the Spurs all have “substantial offers on the table” for Lauri Markkanen.
https://x.com/whiteygleason/status/1808654441551384585
Tjonesonthenba is a beat writer for the Jazz and the Nuggets.
Danny is getting his way…we probably aren’t the top offer, yet. Ainge will shake Mike down
Yeah, give em all the picks. Whatever. Push it all in on this last push with Steph
I’d be hesitant and I think Mike will be too. If Lauri finished one year of his career healthy,
I’d do it.
Maybe Ingram would be the better choice to push all the chips in with.
Perhaps he's waiting to see who will blink first. Will the Warriors offer Kuminga first, Kings offer Murray first, or Spurs offer Vassell first?
Ah I forgot about Vassell
Yep…Ainge is winning this trade
I really don’t mind the idea of losing this sweepstakes. Unpopular opinion now maybe, but when Lauri goes down after 60 games and Kuminga is getting hot for the playoff push …we’ll remember this moment
I don’t know what substantial means here, but sounds like a negotiation is afoot… if the Kings aren’t offering Murray, I don’t view their offer as “substantial”…
Substantial means "below stantial"...Follow me for more linguistic insights.
Laurie next to Wemby? Sheesh!
Spurs have a lot of picks from Atlanta and all their own picks… if Ainge wants picks, and the Spurs are ready to build their next core, it’s gonna be hard to top their offer
Big if though… The Spurs might just decide to aim for Cooper Flagg or whatever his name is with their pick and the Hawks’ pick, rather than take Lauri and have to pay him in one season’s time.
Yep. By tomorrow it’ll be a done deal
Hopefully we turn our sights to Ingram next. If not, well let’s get the Hield deal done and let’s roll
That is a nightmare scenario.