Here’s Klay’s post-scrimmage press conference. It’s must viewing! He talks about how great the team is already, how he’s feeling and playing, expectation of himself, and the roster.
Highlight: He’s told Wiseman what a special team/area he’s in and that he, Kuminga and Moody are the future of the franchise and one day we’ll be handing them the keys. (He’s not at all upset that management didn’t trade the future away for immediate help…sounds like he digs it.)
It’s probably behind their paywall but it talks about how he’s holding guys accountable and keeping them motivated using his love of metrics in a positive way. It really explains why they just look different from other teams in effort level and attention to detail on D. The man is coaching his a$$ off and the guys are playing theirs off too. The D is real and I can only imagine it getting better based on what Dray is saying about their methods.
Awesome piece of reporting - probably the best I have read on The Athletic this season. Lot of fun-cutesy anecdotes which makes you wanna say out loud the obvious - "I love this team and everyone on it".
Some choice selection:
- On different style of coaching/letting young players know their mistakes : "Belli/Otto letting them know quietly, You have Draymond ripping into guys. Then you have Steph putting his arm around them. Andre’s making a cryptic comment."
- Dray complaining that he gets no love from Mike Brown for defensive player of the game/week/month awards that Mike newly instituted
- Shout out to Mark Jackson from Kerr for building the foundation for defense and starting a decade of defensive excellence
- Mike Brown's head sweats alot when he is excited and going crazy (about defense) apparently
- Poole on Dray yelling at him for mistakes : "For sure, bro. For sure. But I would have listened if you had whispered in my ear".But Poole understands Dray's style.
Yep - paywalled. Thanks for the summary! Sounds like a good article and we've been definitely hearing a lot about Mike Brown (in less) detail as the major impetus behind the defensive improvement. Curious if it talks at all about Ron Adams's current role in the defense as that's been credited to him a lot in the Kerr era.
Anyone who looked at his trendlines from last season, saw his performances this preseason, and/or heard the buzz from Kerr and co. about his work ethic and development over the last year or so, is not terribly surprised.
I suggested the Kings fire Luke Walton and they did. Gentry couldn't fare much better tonight in his debut. This is not a winning club. So many misfires, mistakes, and no clutch player coming through. Haliburton playmakes but doesn't score. Fox scores but doesn't playmake. Mitchell neither playmakes nor scores. There is no leadership, so far. Barnes? I don't think he is cut our for that, but I may be wrong. Gentry certainly doesn't have a winning record coaching. Like Walton, the Warrior association can get open doors for you, but actually succeeding is a different story. They need a younger go get'em coach who actually understands the new NBA. These re-tread coaches are all old school. If you want old school, Nellie is waiting for your call. Playing poker, drinking G&T's and smoking cigars on Maui. Don't let him get too fat.
Haliburton is the leader among those guys. They need to let him be the captain.
Also, nothing against the Sacramento area, but speaking from experience, I doubt he wants to leave his current life.
People like to say Maui either accepts you or spits you out. If it’s the former (as it appears is this case with Nelson), throwing money at him won’t make him move.
A while back someone here, I think Sleepy, mentioned a basketball player whose father was black but who looks very white and I think has a German last name. Does this ring a bell to anyone? Pertinent to a conversation I’m having with a friend.
Interesting life story, interesting player. Still kinda wish we had signed him, though at this point I’m not sure whose roster spot I would give to him. I’d love to have him instead of Jeff Dowtin, but I’m dowtin he would have accepted a two-way contract.
Tobias Harris, Seth Curry and Danny Green all sitting for the Sixers tonight. Guess they’re saving ‘em for us. Maybe Danny Green can injure Klay again running into the bench or something.
The headline on espn.com is "The Leading Paint Scorer in the NBA Isn't Who You Think it Is," but it was who I thought it was. What do I do now, I'm so confused.
The MPJ injury situation sounds serious. Denver might have unfortunately reached their peak last season. Having that contract on the books for the next 5+ seasons will make it hard to build a contender around Jokic if MPJ doesn't fully recover.
Also, Jokic is a free agent in 2023, so MPJ's situation could have big implications for the league as a whole.
FiveThirtyEight finally+silently corrected their season projection. Last time I checked the Warriors were in 17th (!) place for current rating. They're now in 3rd behind the Suns #2 and Jazz #1. Honor is certainly due for the Suns who went to the Finals last year and sport a 13-3 record with a 12 game winning streak. I like the Jazz but I don't think the exact same honor is quite due. And the 9-8 Bucks in 4th, nope.
I don't know where the Bucks ought to be exactly but I'm not as opposed to a 4th place spot for them given all the injury woes. When healthy they should have the same team that just won a championship, plus Donte DeVincenzo who wasn't even there for it. They could definitely, as the sports cliche goes, make some noise.
For "current rating" they should be where their record puts them.
I only follow the FiveThirtyEight ranking for comic relief. They didn't get the Warriors right at all until they magically got the Warriors closer to right. I don't even mind putting the Suns in first (12 game streak) but I do mind putting the Jazz there. They haven't beaten the Nets in Brooklyn. They lost to the Heat and Bulls. It's a joke ranking.
Their projections still look pretty bad for GSW with a 6% predicted chance of reaching the finals while the Nuggets are at 25%. The Celtics have a higher chance to reach (and to win) the finals than the Warriors do, using 538's fuzzy math. I think it's a pretty bad prediction system.
They magically jumped from 17th to 3rd after, against all odds, beating the Raptors at the Chase. Everyone knows the road to the 2022 Finals goes through Toronto. No, that's someone fiddling with the model.
Then I must have missed this. Thanks. I think RAPTOR is their in-house version of something similar to Elo which originated with chess ratings. 538 is probably trying to take into account more or different than Elo does.
RAPTOR is their all-in-one player rating system. It's pretty different from Elo, but I'm unclear the difference between their RAPTOR ratings and projections on different pages because the numbers don't all match. In any case their model is also weighted by expected minutes and updated as injuries happen. (For example, the Warriors' recent increase in "chance of making finals" may have gone up because of new injuries on other teams.) I believe the individual game predictions factor in some more things like home court advantage and days of rest as well, and the "projected record" is basically a sum of their chances to win each game. (For example, if you play four games it thinks you have a 25% chance of winning, it assigns you a 1-3 record.)
Their model's rating of the Warriors is relatively low because:
1. It thinks Klay will suck overall after injury but still get a lot of minutes
2. It thinks Wiseman will suck and get a lot of minutes
3. It's not that impressed with Wiggins' improvements after moving to GSW
4. It thinks Poole's defense sucks
And, in general, all the players have overperformed its expectations, which is, I guess, kind of fair. I had pretty optimistic projections for the Warriors but they've surpassed even those.
Yeah RAPTOR is in-house and it's too complex for me. It's supposed to pick up changes and updates quicker but for some reason it doesn't feel that way. I follow the Elo ratings more than the RAPTOR ones.
In either case, we're weighed down heavily by many factors just due to circumstances (eg. injuries and/or whack stats for the last few seasons for many important players). I wouldn't expect any reasonable "Finals %" until at least Klay has 20+ games under his belt.
Aptly put and great to hear the positive impact it has had for you. For me, the hard part is getting exercise in. Watching Dubs game every other day for 2.5 hrs during free time doesn't help. Things I do for Warriors!! 😃. Not a valid excuse, of course.
Steph setting good off-ball screens to get teammates open is one of the many ways he's breaking the B&1. What other star will do that, not just to be "unselfish", but to just know that this is how you contribute to winning?
----
Also, Steph being the screener in the PnR is basically a guaranteed advantage for the handler right? The defense will never switch, so say we went with a Steph/Poole PnR, wouldn't that be a guaranteed open three (if the D goes under) or an open driving lane (if the D goes over)?
----
Most teams are probably used to scouting the starting lineup with maybe two or three key reserves. What happens when they go up against the Dubs and need to account for 1-15 because literally all of them can have impactful games any given night. Eg. when two guys closed in on JTA and left OPJ open, I can't help but think for a split second, they couldn't remember which guy was the better shooter... they're even similar in build and skin tone AND have a white sleeve on their left arm!
Just another reason. Steph puts up ridiculous stats and scoring efficiency. But think about everything he does off ball. He cuts and comes of screens like Reggie Miller, but he sets screens better than any guard in history. Curry is far and away the best off ball NBA player in my lifetime and none of that shows up in the stats. If your guy isn’t as good as Steph off ball, and he’s not as efficient at scoring with the ball then he’s probably not better than Steph.
Here’s Klay’s post-scrimmage press conference. It’s must viewing! He talks about how great the team is already, how he’s feeling and playing, expectation of himself, and the roster.
Highlight: He’s told Wiseman what a special team/area he’s in and that he, Kuminga and Moody are the future of the franchise and one day we’ll be handing them the keys. (He’s not at all upset that management didn’t trade the future away for immediate help…sounds like he digs it.)
Shit https://youtu.be/sXuW-Brgqx4
I haven’t always been the biggest Mike Brown supporter, but this article in the Athletic shows how great a job he’s doing as the defensive coach. https://theathletic.com/2939010/2021/11/23/how-do-the-warriors-have-the-nbas-best-defense-inside-its-construction/?source=user_shared_article
It’s probably behind their paywall but it talks about how he’s holding guys accountable and keeping them motivated using his love of metrics in a positive way. It really explains why they just look different from other teams in effort level and attention to detail on D. The man is coaching his a$$ off and the guys are playing theirs off too. The D is real and I can only imagine it getting better based on what Dray is saying about their methods.
Did it address whether he’s next in line for the throne when Kerr decides he’s had enough?
Maybe something about a Kent Lacob or Luke Walton being trained for that?
You don’t really talk about that stuff publicly unless the head coach is actively in a transition phase.
The author could certainly speculate and ask about it in the context of asking about other head coaching opportunities.
Awesome piece of reporting - probably the best I have read on The Athletic this season. Lot of fun-cutesy anecdotes which makes you wanna say out loud the obvious - "I love this team and everyone on it".
Some choice selection:
- On different style of coaching/letting young players know their mistakes : "Belli/Otto letting them know quietly, You have Draymond ripping into guys. Then you have Steph putting his arm around them. Andre’s making a cryptic comment."
- Dray complaining that he gets no love from Mike Brown for defensive player of the game/week/month awards that Mike newly instituted
- Shout out to Mark Jackson from Kerr for building the foundation for defense and starting a decade of defensive excellence
- Mike Brown's head sweats alot when he is excited and going crazy (about defense) apparently
- Poole on Dray yelling at him for mistakes : "For sure, bro. For sure. But I would have listened if you had whispered in my ear".But Poole understands Dray's style.
Andre being cryptic and Poole saying 'whispered in my ear' had me laughing.
Yep - paywalled. Thanks for the summary! Sounds like a good article and we've been definitely hearing a lot about Mike Brown (in less) detail as the major impetus behind the defensive improvement. Curious if it talks at all about Ron Adams's current role in the defense as that's been credited to him a lot in the Kerr era.
It also talked about how quickly OPJ was able to fix his bad habit of letting his guy by and going for the reach around from behind.
Only as one of the predecessors who helped set and keep a decade of defensive tradition going since the Bogut trade and the Mark Jackson era.
Adams is still a Warriors coach, so "predecessors" seems like an odd word choice to me.
Is sounded like Adam’s truly moved on from that role since they gave it to Collins.
JP3 years 1&2 vs year 3.
https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/1462813895400296451?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1462981163555774466%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcsports.com%2Fbayarea%2Fwarriors%2Fwarriors-klay-thompson-believes-jordan-pooles-future-incredibly-bright
Anyone who looked at his trendlines from last season, saw his performances this preseason, and/or heard the buzz from Kerr and co. about his work ethic and development over the last year or so, is not terribly surprised.
Look at Steph 😆
https://twitter.com/gswreddit/status/1462879088293466113?s=21
I'll take "gravity" for $500.
Bonus: check out JTA celebrating Wiggins' three. Fine, fine early-shot form.
I suggested the Kings fire Luke Walton and they did. Gentry couldn't fare much better tonight in his debut. This is not a winning club. So many misfires, mistakes, and no clutch player coming through. Haliburton playmakes but doesn't score. Fox scores but doesn't playmake. Mitchell neither playmakes nor scores. There is no leadership, so far. Barnes? I don't think he is cut our for that, but I may be wrong. Gentry certainly doesn't have a winning record coaching. Like Walton, the Warrior association can get open doors for you, but actually succeeding is a different story. They need a younger go get'em coach who actually understands the new NBA. These re-tread coaches are all old school. If you want old school, Nellie is waiting for your call. Playing poker, drinking G&T's and smoking cigars on Maui. Don't let him get too fat.
Haliburton is the leader among those guys. They need to let him be the captain.
Also, nothing against the Sacramento area, but speaking from experience, I doubt he wants to leave his current life.
People like to say Maui either accepts you or spits you out. If it’s the former (as it appears is this case with Nelson), throwing money at him won’t make him move.
Mostly agreed, with one key edit: the G&Ts have been replaced by Nellie-kush!
Is there anybody who’s doing well after leaving Warriors past 5 years ( either a coach or a player)?
Kevin Durant did well before during and after the Warriors stint. I think he might just be just ... really good no matter where. Is my theory.
I mean....KD, Barnes are both playing pretty solid. Steve Nash sorta.
Define well
Hole in ground. Water at bottom.
Kings got outscored by 13 in the 4th quarter against a 76ers team resting their starters and lost by 8.
Kings are so bad it hurts me
Memphis just beat Utah in a good one.
Ja with 32 on 30 (!) shots.
A while back someone here, I think Sleepy, mentioned a basketball player whose father was black but who looks very white and I think has a German last name. Does this ring a bell to anyone? Pertinent to a conversation I’m having with a friend.
Isaiah Hartenstein?
He’s getting good run with the… Clippers?
Yep!
Interesting life story, interesting player. Still kinda wish we had signed him, though at this point I’m not sure whose roster spot I would give to him. I’d love to have him instead of Jeff Dowtin, but I’m dowtin he would have accepted a two-way contract.
Yes thanks!!!
Tobias Harris, Seth Curry and Danny Green all sitting for the Sixers tonight. Guess they’re saving ‘em for us. Maybe Danny Green can injure Klay again running into the bench or something.
Danny greens been out so it's possible he doesn't play
Muldur is Orlando’s leading scorer. They are down by 46 points.
Muldur also with by far the least-worst plus minus of the starters. -13 while everyone else was -28 to -38!
Typo. You wrote "46"
Oh.
Boy are they bad
4 games against Suns. That may be the difference between #1 and #2. Hopefully Dray goes at them just like he did @Nets.
Or maybe the Suns start playing teams with a pulse. Starting with us.
Me likey!
Do not doubt this.
The headline on espn.com is "The Leading Paint Scorer in the NBA Isn't Who You Think it Is," but it was who I thought it was. What do I do now, I'm so confused.
I refuse to get suckered into giving espn more clicks!
Who was It?
You should hold tightly to this information, and not share it with the rest of us.
Or maybe that's *just* what they WANT me to do.
I think they needs to be italicized
Go ahead and italicize it I release my copyright it.
The MPJ injury situation sounds serious. Denver might have unfortunately reached their peak last season. Having that contract on the books for the next 5+ seasons will make it hard to build a contender around Jokic if MPJ doesn't fully recover.
Also, Jokic is a free agent in 2023, so MPJ's situation could have big implications for the league as a whole.
I feel bad. I really like MPJ, just have always been fascinated by his outside shooting at his size and athleticism. Hope he recovers.
What a coincidence, Wiggins is a free agent then too
The real reason we hired Dejan?
Certainly not coincidence
(Just thinking back to the KD-Ron Adams connection when he first signed)
FiveThirtyEight finally+silently corrected their season projection. Last time I checked the Warriors were in 17th (!) place for current rating. They're now in 3rd behind the Suns #2 and Jazz #1. Honor is certainly due for the Suns who went to the Finals last year and sport a 13-3 record with a 12 game winning streak. I like the Jazz but I don't think the exact same honor is quite due. And the 9-8 Bucks in 4th, nope.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2022-nba-predictions/
I don't know where the Bucks ought to be exactly but I'm not as opposed to a 4th place spot for them given all the injury woes. When healthy they should have the same team that just won a championship, plus Donte DeVincenzo who wasn't even there for it. They could definitely, as the sports cliche goes, make some noise.
The Bucks have been rolling teams when healthy. Zero worries about them.
For "current rating" they should be where their record puts them.
I only follow the FiveThirtyEight ranking for comic relief. They didn't get the Warriors right at all until they magically got the Warriors closer to right. I don't even mind putting the Suns in first (12 game streak) but I do mind putting the Jazz there. They haven't beaten the Nets in Brooklyn. They lost to the Heat and Bulls. It's a joke ranking.
Minus PJ Tucker for whatever he’s worth
He's worth, good reminder.
Their projections still look pretty bad for GSW with a 6% predicted chance of reaching the finals while the Nuggets are at 25%. The Celtics have a higher chance to reach (and to win) the finals than the Warriors do, using 538's fuzzy math. I think it's a pretty bad prediction system.
> silently corrected their season projection
What do you mean? It updates after every game (or at least every week).
They magically jumped from 17th to 3rd after, against all odds, beating the Raptors at the Chase. Everyone knows the road to the 2022 Finals goes through Toronto. No, that's someone fiddling with the model.
They were ranked 7th on Nov. 15. They have a history feature. And they were definitely 3rd/4th by Elo before the TOR game.
The Jazz lost to the Grizzlies and they're still in front of the Warriors.
Then I must have missed this. Thanks. I think RAPTOR is their in-house version of something similar to Elo which originated with chess ratings. 538 is probably trying to take into account more or different than Elo does.
I still don't get how the Jazz are in first.
RAPTOR is their all-in-one player rating system. It's pretty different from Elo, but I'm unclear the difference between their RAPTOR ratings and projections on different pages because the numbers don't all match. In any case their model is also weighted by expected minutes and updated as injuries happen. (For example, the Warriors' recent increase in "chance of making finals" may have gone up because of new injuries on other teams.) I believe the individual game predictions factor in some more things like home court advantage and days of rest as well, and the "projected record" is basically a sum of their chances to win each game. (For example, if you play four games it thinks you have a 25% chance of winning, it assigns you a 1-3 record.)
Their model's rating of the Warriors is relatively low because:
1. It thinks Klay will suck overall after injury but still get a lot of minutes
2. It thinks Wiseman will suck and get a lot of minutes
3. It's not that impressed with Wiggins' improvements after moving to GSW
4. It thinks Poole's defense sucks
And, in general, all the players have overperformed its expectations, which is, I guess, kind of fair. I had pretty optimistic projections for the Warriors but they've surpassed even those.
Yeah RAPTOR is in-house and it's too complex for me. It's supposed to pick up changes and updates quicker but for some reason it doesn't feel that way. I follow the Elo ratings more than the RAPTOR ones.
In either case, we're weighed down heavily by many factors just due to circumstances (eg. injuries and/or whack stats for the last few seasons for many important players). I wouldn't expect any reasonable "Finals %" until at least Klay has 20+ games under his belt.
I just wouldn’t worry about their model…
Another goodie from De De - starts 2:30. Talks about motivation, giving up drinking, feeling healthy
https://youtu.be/sAgo81kI1ao
Aptly put and great to hear the positive impact it has had for you. For me, the hard part is getting exercise in. Watching Dubs game every other day for 2.5 hrs during free time doesn't help. Things I do for Warriors!! 😃. Not a valid excuse, of course.
Steph setting good off-ball screens to get teammates open is one of the many ways he's breaking the B&1. What other star will do that, not just to be "unselfish", but to just know that this is how you contribute to winning?
----
Also, Steph being the screener in the PnR is basically a guaranteed advantage for the handler right? The defense will never switch, so say we went with a Steph/Poole PnR, wouldn't that be a guaranteed open three (if the D goes under) or an open driving lane (if the D goes over)?
----
Most teams are probably used to scouting the starting lineup with maybe two or three key reserves. What happens when they go up against the Dubs and need to account for 1-15 because literally all of them can have impactful games any given night. Eg. when two guys closed in on JTA and left OPJ open, I can't help but think for a split second, they couldn't remember which guy was the better shooter... they're even similar in build and skin tone AND have a white sleeve on their left arm!
Just another reason. Steph puts up ridiculous stats and scoring efficiency. But think about everything he does off ball. He cuts and comes of screens like Reggie Miller, but he sets screens better than any guard in history. Curry is far and away the best off ball NBA player in my lifetime and none of that shows up in the stats. If your guy isn’t as good as Steph off ball, and he’s not as efficient at scoring with the ball then he’s probably not better than Steph.
I think he’s at that point in his career where he loves a great screen or taking multiple defenders away from the action as anything else
I've been wondering exactly this lately. What happens when you go from 2-3 dubs you have to scout on offense to 10+.
Bingo!