Dub Nation HQ Comments of Week, plus open thread

a lot happened this week

Helpful hint: Every commenter’s name is a link that leads back to the original comment.

Warriors successfully finish preseason; their…

POOLE + WIGGS GOT PAID! KLAY'S BACK! AND THE LOTTERY PICKS LOOK DOMINANT!

• Sleepy Freud (20 ♡):

  OT: prayers up for Dikembe Mutombo. Hope he says “no-no-no-NO!” and kicks cancer’s ass.

• Arash (18 ♡):

  Quote from Lacob

  "Of course I paid them. We still got 11 championships to go in order to be the winningest franchise . . .. what's that? Of course I've gone mad with power! Have you ever gone mad without power, it's boring, nobody listens to you!"

• SD (18 ♡):

  @wojespn

  Reporting with

  @kendra__andrews

  : Golden State Warriors All-Star Andrew Wiggins has agreed to a four-year, $109 million extension, his agents Drew Morrison and Steven Heumann of CAA Sports tell ESPN. Wiggins is now tied to the Warriors for five-years, $143 million.

• Duby Dub Dubs (15 ♡):

  WIGGS?!

  Thank you sir! What a guuuuy! Comes here, proves his value , and then makes a point of taking less

• Being (14 ♡):

  [UPDATE: I forgot about the repeater tax, and that totally screws us. Mr Teal reminded me. Re-doing numbers]

  So I plugged in all the new numbers into the spreadsheet, and yah, salaries are sky-high for next season.

  Salary spreadsheet:

  ------------

  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JKTDRR_YbjX8S_xebph8qIEDd6b1-dBvlbeUHc1lD04/edit#gid=791431159

  Here's what I get:

  ------------------

  This year, with Andre and 15th slot empty:

  Salary: $189.5M

  Luxury Tax: $170M

  Total: $359.4M

  Note that the tax apron for this year is $150.3M With a $189M salary, their max multiplier is 6.25x + 1 for the repeater tax + base salary, so every additional dollar is $7.25.

  ---------------------

  Next season:

  with Dray fully opted in @ $27.6M:

  Salary: $217M

  Luxury Tax: $283.6M

  Total: $500.5M

  This puts them in the 8.75x multiplier zone.

  This also assumes 2 vet mins to fill in the last two roster spots.

  ---------------------

  Now let's make two minor tweaks:

  Trade DDV and fill his roster spot with a 2nd round rookie similar to Rollins this year, getting paid $1.1M or so.

  Renegotiate with Draymond and get him to $112.65M/4 years ($25M starting salary next year).

  New salary: $211.1M

  Luxury Tax: $239M

  Total: $450M

  New marginal multiplier: 8.25x

  --------------------------------

  Can they get Dray down to $20M in the first year?

  If so, the numbers will be:

  New salary: $206M

  Luxury Tax: $203M

  Total: $409M

  which just may be palatable for Lacob.

• dinohealth (14 ♡):

  KUDOS to JOE AND FO. Methinks, barring injuries, Joe will NOT break up his dynastic core. Dray/Klay/Steph are going nowhere so long as the team is competing/winning 'Ships. Always thought Joe the Gambler will go up to 1/2 billion to keep ALL the great young generational talent and keep Dynasty rolling; 'Ships have a way of balancing the books. Not surprised we are keeping BOTH Wiggs AND Jordan; there will be no ODD MAN out, we'll just have a lot of ALL GOOD OPTIONS, which may never have to be exercised...

• Sleepy Freud (14 ♡):

  Dubs fans who spent the last year expressing their deep concern for Lacob’s wallet and imagining JP and Wiggs in other teams’ uniforms probably wish they had those hours back.

• ServantOfLuna (13 ♡):

  So the Warriors keep Poole AND Wiggins for the next several years?! My reaction right now:

  

• Sleepy Freud (13 ♡):

  Gotta add Wiggs to the header image!!!!

• GlueAndBold (12 ♡):

  I love being a fan of this team.

• DFiB (12 ♡):

  Rest of NBA: They’ll keep Dray and one of Poole/Wiggins, but no way they keep both!

  Bob: we extended Poole and Wiggins.

  Rest of NBA: noooo!!! They’ve realized they don’t have to overpay Dray, cuz none of us wants to even pay him !!!

• Trogdor (11 ♡):

  As I've said before, the Bulls are still printing money off of Jordan's success. The Celtics have won one championship since Larry Bird's era yet they're still seen as a flagship franchise. The Dallas Cowboys are still seen as America's team and are the most valuable football franchise (I think) despite decades of ineptitude.

  If the Warriors cement themselves as arguably the greatest dynasty of the modern era, and Steph goes down as a top five all-time player, the short term financial pain will pale in comparison to the long term returns.

• crusty quips (11 ♡):

  #POOLE PAYDAY! Much deserved and glad we could lock him in before he gets even more expensive this season. I think this should give a very clear signal internally and externally as to how much this organization values Jordan and his contributions to winning. Very happy to be able to watch him do his thing for at least another four years.

• g8tgod (10 ♡):

  Just got the news about Wiggs. I didn't see that coming so soon. Glad to have him in the fold and at a relative bargain.

  BTW, remembering Wiggins and Poole celebrating after the championship. I guess they were right about their bags...

• dayvan cowboy (10 ♡):

  I’ll be the first to say that I prefer a statue of Wiggs to one of KD outside Chase Center.

• GlueAndBold (10 ♡):

  WOW. BOB. WOW.

  (Wiggs!)

• alv66 (9 ♡):

  We are so unbelievably lucky to be fans of this team.

• BadlyBrowned (9 ♡):

  Well, Wiggs and JP went out and did what they said in that champagne soaked locker room, they got the bag.

• TwoRingTest (9 ♡):

  Major, major, major props to Joe Lacob and the rest of the ownership team.

  They had to have concerns about paying the four players coming up (Poole, Wiggs, Draymond, Klay). Even if you assume Draymond is moved, that's still a big check for next year.

• DubPHan (9 ♡):

  Re: Poole, I have never been happier to be wrong, and Re: Wiggins, this is a total surprise to me. He took a *major* haircut to stay on a championship-level team when he could have had a big bag from a competitor, and has earned major respect from me. I for one am gonna tone down my rants when he hoists those long twos... well, a little.

• Goofus (9 ♡):

  This, after putting all the intellectual horsepower I had into the great “Poole is the priority” vs. “Wiggins is the priority” debates 😂

Places everyone! Warriors final preseason…

Green, Thompson return to starting lineup in final dress rehearsal ahead of Tuesday's season opener. Are we cool?

• Arash (29 ♡):

  Quote From Dray’s Presser!!

  “I am but a humble veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of fate. This visage now stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these vacuous and virulent vermin viciously vilifying me as a vainglorious veteran with no venerable virtues!The only verdict is vengeance through victory; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add ……… my bad Poole!

• TwoRingTest (26 ♡):

  As Duby's Kermit-based preview reminded us:

  It's not easy being Green.

• Alas Phood Fight (24 ♡):

  What do you do when you reach the top of the mountain?

  There are times in someone's life where they need to evolve, where life's circumstances require a new set of tools. It seems to be that time for Draymond. He has been 'proving people wrong' his whole life, he has fought tooth and nail to make it in a league that didn't recognize his value, he carries a chip on his shoulder the size of a boulder and has used it to flame his desire to win at all cost. But Draymond is no longer the pudgy tweener from Michigan with a 'questionable' shot. Draymond has ascended the NBA landscape. He is regarded as the best defender of his generation, perhaps the best help-defender we have ever seen. His IQ is regarded as one of the highest in the league. He is regarded as one of the best passing big men in the game. He has 4 championships. He is engaging and has a post-career in media that is the envy of all ballers. He is regarded by some, including me, to have had an impact on the game equal to, if not surpassing Curry's. (Switching defenses, tweener is no longer a four-letter word, average centers no longer get paid, etc.) All the folks in the media that really know what they are talking about see his game, rank him as one of the best in the game despite his unique skillset, and there are few left that disparage the game of this shoe-in Hall of Famer.

  But Draymond may be the last person to learn this. When your entire life has been spent climbing an impossible mountain, what the F do you do when you reach the top? Some people say money may be an issue, and it probably is, but it really is just a sideshow. Few people are set up to make money post-career like Dray. The issue is deeper. He has reached the Apex of his career. He has amassed a Library full of experience and knowledge in this game about how to climb up that mountain, how to succeed, how to win. But now he is faced with perhaps his greatest challenge: how do you climb back down the mountain gracefully. It's a lot easier going up because you are looking at your goal. Going back down the mountain is a more delicate situation. You are going backwards, you are looking up at where you were, and glancing back time and time again to gauge where you are descending. You have other climbers who are headed up the mountain as you once were and can pause to give them advice, maybe give them a hand, then turn once again to your descent.

  The descent is a different animal and requires a different attitude, a different strategy, and different skills. Some can't fathom the change and just throw themselves off the mountain. Hopefully, this is not Draymond's path. But he needs to evolve. He can't use the idea that others don't think he can play as fuel. He can't use the idea that others don't respect what he has done in the league as fuel. I understand that Draymond uses emotion as a tool to drive him. But that emotion can't be fueled by the same ideas of old. He has to challenge himself in another way that fits with who he is, who he has become, a man whose career is the envy of others, not the pudgy tweener from Saginaw.

  What do you do when you get to the top of the mountain? You take a deep breath, take in the view and remember it. Then you snap on that fanny-pack and carefully make your way back down the mountain. It's important for everyone, because he needs to share his experience and knowledge with others so that they too may reach the top. And he needs to share what it was like on the top so that others may ascend with the spirit and fortitude needed to get there. It's all there for Draymond. But change doesn't come easy. Evolution can be painful. But what is more painful is what happens when you use life tools that are worn out and no longer serve a useful purpose.

  Draymond will always need fire. But he needs a new fuel, a new challenge, a new chip on his shoulder. It's no longer about how the world. He conquered that. The challenge now is himself.

  Descend Draymond. Descend into yourself and let that be your last battlefield.

• Klaymation (17 ♡):

  I honestly don't feel worthy to get to watch the Warrior second unit roughly every two days.

  A reminder to always count your blessings.

• Sleepy Freud (14 ♡):

  [On Wiseman’s block] It was 100% goaltending. But still very impressive.

  I really wanted to believe James was gonna make a leap this year … but was in “show me” mode till he actually started looking like a qualitatively different player from the awkward rook we saw in 2020-21. And … he’s been showing me. He’s looked SO much stronger, smarter, more graceful, and more decisive this preseason than he ever did previously.

Klay Thompson is back, but different

With a couple of severe injuries in the rearview, Thompson and Warriors cross into new era

• Goofus (16 ♡):

  [Report: Anonymous NBA player blasts the Charlotte Hornets: ‘That team is trash because LaMelo is trash’]
  
  All their fans are mad that they didn’t trade up to take Wiseman.

• BadlyBrowned (14 ♡):

  Klay and Wiseman will play together for the first time ever?!?!

• hammystyle (10 ♡):

  As a side note I was reading Hollinger's season preview of the Atlanta Hawks and he was breaking down the roster. One time, not long ago, Travis Schlenk was seen as building Warriors south, with a superlative offensive guard surrounded by a deep group of large wings with skill and defense. He had Deandre Hunter, Cam Reddish, Kevin Huerter, Bogdan Bogdanovich as the core group but with Solomon Hill and Tony Snell as depth vets and the Hawks took a surprise run to the Eastern Conference Finals.

  Now, a couple years later he's got: Deandre Hunter who's been injured and had his development stall out a bit, Bogdanovich, and....Justin Holiday? 19 year old AJ Griffin?

  He's got most of his resources at Big (Capela, Collins, and Okongwu) and at G with Trae and now Dejounte. You can see a little that Dejounte's D and maybe Okongwu's versatility will try to recreate some of what the Warriors have, but still it's not a wing heavy team.

  Which I'm not dumping on him but more just kudos to Myers and the Warriors again because this is HARD. Everyone is trying to do this, and yet here the Warriors are again with Klay, Wiggins, Moody, Kuminga, Donte and Andre (behind some glass next to an axe). That's just the pure wing group. Donte is verryy close, and Dray can guard anyone.

• Sleepy Freud (10 ♡):

  The critical position of “17th man with a first name for a last name” must be debated extensively.

• Mikayla (9 ♡):

  Only game I care about Klay being ready for is game one of the first round. He's been through hugely traumatic shit the last few years. Take all the time you need to get your body and mind right each season my sweet prince.

• Eric Apricot (8 ♡):

  Yah could be what RTMC says and QW asked for it…

  In general, the LQ and QW roles of “decent shooting combo guard backup” are eaten up by Moody, Donte, Rollins which is already a lot and then Pat Spencer seems to have lacrossed past them up the depth chart

Also

• Dilly (13 ♡):

  OT

  Dill Update - Thursday, 10/13/22

  After seeing the extent of skin loss on Dill's legs Sunday afternoon, I was able to get him to the vet Tuesday morning affter calling & sending pictures Monday. He put on a sugar/iodine solution and wrapped the affected areas. We decided it would be easier to leave him there so the wraps can be changed every 3-4 days.

  I called this morning to see how Dill was doing. "He doesn't like it here very much and he's not eating or drinking." Not good.

  So, I took down the food he likes. He hissed at the vet when he opened his door. I let him sniff my hand and petted his head a bit and then gave him food. He started eating immediately & in just a few minutes he ate more than he had at one time here at home. I told him he needs to drink water too. After he had eaten for a few minutes, he started purring, which I took as a very good sign. I also told him Molly [my kitten] has been worried about him.

  I had a longer chat with the vet. Dill won't be there for just a couple of weeks - but a couple of months, at least, before he's healed. It's going to be a long road for him. But he looks the best that he has to me since the injuries occurred.

• dayvan cowboy (10 ♡):

  Please don’t use the r-word. Thanks. I know it might seem benign because it was commonplace to use the word not too long ago, but I have a kiddo who not too long ago would have been labeled a retard. And when you have someone you love who is the target of a slur, it hurts to see that same slur thrown around carelessly. I hope you don’t know how that feels.

Warriors demolish Blazers; welcome Draymond…

It's time to forgive, baby!

• Alas Phood Fight (36 ♡):

  Alas, my response.

  It's been a huge week for JP.

  *Jordan took a fist from Draymond (aka Sugar Ray Dray), but more importantly, he took his power, not some of it, all of it. And he could have done anything with it. His choice. What did he do? He gave that power back to Draymond, something akin to giving Thor his hammer back after he just clubbed you with it. It's hard to list what this has done for JP, but here I go.

  1. He just pulled Draymond out of the gutter and for this Draymond will be forever in his debt.

  2. He solved innumerable and immeasurable problems for the Organization (Ring night much?). He told the Warriors that 'Winning' is the most important thing to him and that he understands Draymond is critical to winning on the highest level. The organization is in his debt, a debt that we will likely see a substantial down-payment on as details are worked out on JP's extension. Beyond that, the Warriors now see in Poole the type of player who, like Curry, may be a lifer and team first leader they will need and can rely on once Curry moves on. JP's handling of this situation so far has both short term (rookie extension) and long term (you really are the Heir Apparent) consequences.

  3. He did Curry a solid. By pulling Draymond out of the mud, he saved Curry's friend and professional cohort, thus saving Curry the most uncomfortable position of straddling the fence between victim & perpetrator, more appropriately, a rock and a hard place. JP's 'win first' mentality also gets more points from Curry, who, as the King, has some power in anointing the player to follow in his footsteps.

  4. Watch JP in Gm 6 v Boston. He got under Marcus Smart's skin big time. That is a 3rd year player getting in the head of the 2022 DPOY in a Finals game. He has Smart's pelt on his wall. Now he has Draymond's, probably hanging over his fireplace or as the centerpiece in his dining room. Getting under the skin of an opposing player is an art, it is a skill, it is highly valued as part of the mental game on the court. I cannot express what incredibly good news this is for the Dubs moving forward. Jordan F'ing Poole has taken 2 of the biggest shit talkers and agitators the league has to offer to school. And their pelts are hanging on his walls. And if anyone ever hits him again, all he is gonna do is pop up and say, "You hit like Draymond" and laugh while the other guy gets escorted off the court. JP is fearless.

  5. He has just been jumped (gang style) into the big boy room and he will be eating at the big boy table from now on. He has cemented himself, by his actions, as a player to be respected by the vets and admired by the youth. He is one of the new leaders in the locker room. Team first, work hard, play hard and win. JP has ascended.

  It really is a Poole Party. Congrats young fellow, you earned it .... the hard way.

• Goofus (17 ♡):

  (Brought forward) Kerr talking about Looney has to be seen/heard to truly appreciate how strong the praise is

Warriors on NBCS @NBCSWarriors

"[Looney] has become the moral compass of our team." Steve Kerr details Kevon Looney's leadership through this incident

• Matt (16 ♡):

  I had a good time reviewing Poole’s fantastic contribution to the team -

  1. His distance shooting streaks are the closest thing to Curry’s unconscious/impossible/en fuego moments. Klay + Dame territory is rare air.

  2. His creative, herky-jerky yet fluid, slashing game are different than Steph’s lay-up magic, but it’s so sweet. That’s not a Eurostep, that’s jazz.

  3. My personal fave, his all-around cuteness, rubber-faced comedic timing, dance moves, and celebration contributions make him a Dubworthy meme-generator second only to Captain Klay.

  4. His terse and almost purposefully awkward post-game press presence is actually pretty darn funny and smart. Mischevious, but all ball-all the time, like Klay (but not.)

  5. His cats.

• Night Night (15 ♡):

  I can't wait for everyone to dunk on me for 2+ years of trashing Wiseman as a draft bust. The receipts are all over the internet, and I'm really gonna hear about it from the fellas on game nights.

  Being wrong has never felt so good!

  In related news, I'm gonna trash Kuminga until he makes me look dumb.

  • AttilaTheHun (11 ♡):

    After you finish trashing JK, please put it on your schedule to dump on PBJ later this season. Just think how great you'll feel when he shows what he can do by then.

• LvS (14 ♡):

  I’m fine w the positive spin here but what’s the BS about Poole being “humiliated”? The internet is an idiot. One is not humiliated by being punched in the face. Other guy is humiliated for being out of control.

• Trogdor (13 ♡):

  To pile on the Wiseman praise, he looks so much better now than he did even at the beginning of summer league. This was his FIRST summer league and his FIRST training camp. If this is how much better he looks after just one summer of actually having the support system around him that he needs to learn?

  I can't wait to see how much he's able to grow over the course of this next season. I predict that by the end of the season we'll have people on here calling for him to start over Looney.

• hammystyle (13 ♡):

  Moodys ball handling and finishing package looked so smooth. Really using his wingspan. My expectations for his 2nd year have really gone up.

  Wiseman looks so much more comfortable in the flow of the offense.

  I think we’re really seeing the benefits of the development program.

• Trogdor (12 ♡):

  The problem I see here is a very common one in our current society: punishment is not necessarily equivalent to consequences. Will fining and suspending Dray fix the problem? Maybe, maybe not. Punishments should be ONE potential tool that is used (in management, parenting, correctional system, coaching, etc.) but it is not the be all and end all.

  Draymond is absolutely facing consequences for this. He's lost the trust of his teammates, he's disrupted the championship culture that he and the others have worked so hard to build, he's frayed his relationship with Kerr, he's damaged his reputation inside and outside of the locker room, he's let himself down, and he's harmed a friendship with Poole. Those consequences are very real and likely much more impactful on Draymond than fines or suspensions would be (which, in the case of suspensions, would ultimately also hurt the team).

  What we want here is correction and rebuilding. If punishment helps with that, great, but punishment is usually only a blunt force object which regardless of the context often does a whole lot less good than people think it will.

• BKisforSF (11 ♡):

  Honestly, the biggest revelation from last night for me was Ryan Rollins. Mid-second round guards with no summer league aren't meant to look that good against NBA level competition. That was eye-popping.

• Asher B. (10 ♡):

  I'll agree with the "Poole is being the bigger man" narrative and give him kudos. But I'll also say that it was never about him in the first place. Draymond didn't lose his shit because of Poole, Draymond lost his shit because of himself. Poole was just the nearest target. It does take quite a mature person to say "I got hit in the face, and everyone saw it, but it's not really about me," but it is doable. And as far as I can tell, that seems to be where he's at, given his subsequent positive play and practice reports and so on. I don't think of this as a Poole story in any central way.

• BKisforSF (10 ♡):

  I think they're trying to learn from the KD episode, to be honest. They want the players to decide the discipline, meaning all of them, not to be dictating it from the gilded front office. At the end of the day, NBA players to have a labor mentality. They are not trusting of the machinations of ownership and his paid lackeys. I think going with the choices of the players is the wiser option, even if the fans are going to see it as unwarranted and unwise leniency.

• Truckeeman (9 ♡):

  Psych 101 - "punishment" leads to unpredictable consequences. Any talk of failure of the team to impose "consequences" (= "punishment") must be viewed in that light. If you are a parent, you have witnessed this yourself: punishing your child often leads to undesirable results. At one point, child-rearing "experts" (LOL) talked about "natural consequences." In this case, being embarrassed by the video, the clear exposure of his "having a difficult time", losing trust of teammates and coaches, loss of position as acknowledged leader......So, did the team really need to do a lot more?

  I'm very much in favor of the team players and coaches "working it out" with Draymond. This was a breakdown, but hopefully the resolution led to a breakthrough that results in a more together, harmonious team.

  Also, the young guys are going to be fun.

Short-handed Warriors play out preseason with…

Green still "away from team" and Thompson still ramping up

• Eric Apricot (29 ♡):

  Well, if Jordan Poole and the players had a strong say in deciding Draymond’s punishment and are at peace with it, as was reported, then I’m okay with it.

• crusty quips (24 ♡):

  It seems unnecessarily hyperbolic to compare this incident with something as serious as police brutality which has claimed the lives of countless innocent civilians, some of them children, and grossly/disproportionately targeting people of color. I understand you wanted a harsher punishment but making this kind of comparison helps no one.

• Sleepy Freud (15 ♡):

  Wrote this on another board where the fans seemed to be laboring under the impression that the Dray decision was taken with no input from Poole:

  ====

  Per Kerr, Poole was the ultimate arbiter. He and Dray apparently got together and worked things out. Kerr said yesterday that the decision was going to be left to the players, which we can presume means principally JP with input from the elder statesman: Steph, Looney, Iguodala.

  Loon in particular has apparently stepped up big in the crisis, being both super close with JP (who idolized him as a fellow Milwaukee prep stud, three years his senior) and an official member of the OG. Even with Dray returning, I think he’s effectively stepped into Dray’s role among the team’s core emotional leaders, with Steph and Andre. While he presumably signed off on Dray’s return, he also said it’s gonna take time for him to win back the players’ trust.

  Personally: while I’m still pissed at Dray to the point where I basically want him gone (if not right now, at a date TBD, like Tommy in Goodfellas) I have no issue with the Warriors’ process of leaving it up to the players. And either way, I don’t think an arbitrary X game suspension coming down from on high (as happened with the Dray-KD dustup) really changes anything. Dray lost the respect he had among his teammates — who to a man rushed to JP’s side, notwithstanding the initial, sleazy Haynes report to the contrary — and among NBA players in general; and I don’t think he’s ever gonna win it back completely. Let him stew in that knowledge while he’s yapping at the refs with his teammates rolling their eyes behind him, or while he’s trying to negotiate his extension with his leverage lost.

• jeckyllhouse (13 ♡):

  gonna work on finding the clip, but Kerr called Loon "the moral compass of the team" & "a special human being"

• Dilly (11 ♡):

  I brought my ice cream game up to playoff level tonight. Tonight's starters & end of the bench guys deserved it for the effort they gave tonight. Lots of good things tonight on the offense.

• Tonkal (11 ♡):

  Poole seems to be a bigger man than all the cancel culture people who want Draymond suspended.

  • ForeverFoyled (11 ♡):

    I think I agree with the overall sentiment (people have been overreacting on the negative side toward Green), but I feel uneasy with the blame being placed on "cancel culture."

    - Draymond did something bad. We, and everyone involved with the Warriors, wishes he didn't do it. I don't think this point is particularly debatable. However, how bad the action was can be debated. Some seem to be assuming this is PTSD-level triggering event for Poole -- while that is a possible outcome, and would be no fault to Poole, I doubt this type of incident normally has PTSD ramifications. I am not an expert on this matter though -- but the idea that this is not the first or last fight either has been involved in feels accurate. I also personally don't like to excessively judge people in situations I have not been in. I've never come close to punching anyone in anger, however I have gotten angry enough that I lost control of my reasonable sensibilities temporarily. I would be surprised if others have not been in a similar situation. If I were in a physical environment, as a basketball court is, I can't confidently say what the outcome would have been. Like many of us, who in some respects idolize and look up to these players, I wish in this moment Draymond had lived up to my belief he is a better person than I am. But, if he faltered, and exhibited the same flaws I may have, it is disappointing but I am not going to overly judge him for it.

    - the term "cancel culture" has become quite politically loaded, and I can't say that I agree with its connotations. People have always been "cancelled." While there are countless in history, a very clear and modern example is Muhammad Ali, who was quite literally cancelled from competing for four years in his prime years (a little bit more than then 1 to 40 game suspensions suggested here for Green), likely based on his race and religious beliefs. I think the information/internet age has made a lot more things readily available, which triggers more outrage when bad deeds are uncovered. But it is hard for me to reconcile the recent attacks on "cancel culture" as anything other than "we are upset that whites are now being cancelled". While perhaps not applicable to this particular case with Draymond Green, it definitely has bothered me that minorities have always been "cancelled" by society, and this only has seemed to become some terrible leftist machination when white people also started to become cancelled.

• DFiB (10 ♡):

  Yo, Wise was great last night. Some early fouls, but playing that well against Nurk is real enough, even though no Dame or anybody tough to get switched onto. Seems like he’s getting more comfortable by the game.

• UneasySquirrel (9 ♡):

  Rollins is further along defensively than one might have expected, coming from a mid-major school and without being cleared to play until September. He doesn't mess up much on-ball or off-ball, and his length really plays. I'm not sure he's really gambled at all, but still gotten something like 5+ deflections + steals this game, including a couple deflections with his feet to stop passes to otherwise open rollers. I think he's still feeling things out on offense, but things somehow seem to run smoothly when he's handling the ball. That's a good sign. He also mixes it up in the paint a bit when it comes to rebounds.

  I still like Quinones. He can shoot, he's solid on defense for a rookie, has made some nice passes within the flow of the offense, and he likes to gamble a bit off-ball but he's done a pretty decent job of not getting burned when he does. Between the 3-and-D skillset, his seemingly joyous locker room presence, and maybe a little more room to grow in terms of playmaking if things break right, I think they should absolutely keep him. But we'll see.

  Anthony Lamb and Pat Spencer are really, really intriguing. I continue to be really hesitant about Lamb because of the reports that he faced sexual assault allegations while in college (I haven't looked it up at all because I'm not sure I want to know more yet), and knowing very very well how borderline impossible it is for any alleged perpetrator to face any consequences for sexual assault on campus, the fact that he didn't seem to face legal charges, or suspensions or whatnot from the university, doesn't necessarily mean much. He's played phenomenally well though - really really good on defense, on the boards, on offense while playing within the system, et cetera. He hit a couple 3's as well. If he plays like that in camp consistently as well as on the court in preseason games, I'm not sure if they can justify not keeping him somehow.

  Spencer is great. I like his shot, his defense, how well he fits within the offensive system and keeps the ball moving crisply. The finishing inside was a surprise - not that he had bounce, I knew that, but he hit a lot of reverse layups and the like with confidence. No finishing adventures, so to speak. If it comes down to him and Lamb, I think they might have to choose Lamb given what he brings defensively, but I hope they're able to keep Spencer in Santa Cruz. I think if they do we'll see him playing for the Dubs at some point during the season to fill out minutes during the dog days of the season.

• jzalvarado (9 ♡):

  For me, last years chip was unexpected (kudos to some of you who had this pegged early). Me personally I don’t see any young cat on this roster who screams the next Curry or Draymond but some nice complementary pieces. I mention this because while last year was a pleasant Surprise I desperately want the chip this year. I just feel that Klay and drays contract situation gonna loom heavy over the team and the young guys are gonna be up for extensions. I don’t think we’re keeping everyone together. Just can’t pay them so I’m ok with kicking the can on the whole Draymond situation this year. Just has the feels of a special season prior to the punch. This is how I felt in 15-16.

Poole Party on display vs Lakers in 124-121…

Jordan Poole's third quarter scoring binge in his first game since being punched by his teammate reminded the league that Golden State's youth movement is for real.

• Dip (29 ♡):

  I begin by apologizing in advance to those who may feel offended by my stance. I have been following the Warriors almost since 2010, so I am not a lifetime Warrior fan like most of you are. My fascination with Warriors started with Steph and got really cemented with the Splash brothers. Like you, I have watched this team blossom into an all-time great unit with pride, love, and belonging. I have never been seen the team play physically, and I have never been to California, and to the US only a couple of times. Yet, I can perhaps rattle NBA trivia with the best of you, and can share the most memorable moments over the course of the last decade as I have watched almost all the games available- despite time zone differences, despite work hours, despite other things.

  Why do I add this before my small observation? Because I may not understand the cultural nuances enough to make a meaningful or relevant point.

  Like all of you, I was shocked and heartbroken to see the punching incident. It filled me with grief and trepidation about this team and the two protagonists in this story. I can understand the anger at Draymond and the concern for Poole. I can even understand how most of you have zero tolerance for violence of any kind. Don’t get me wrong, what Draymond did was completely wrong, whatever the provocation, if any! He deserves whatever punsihment that he may have to face within the parameters set by the team. He must seek out apologies from Jordan and the team for having let them down. Only then can he join the team again.

  Having said that I am shocked at the reaction of the Warriors fans. I do not know which world you live in, but out here where I live altercations and even intimidating ones are part of everyday lives. People, grown-up people, can fight. There are personal reasons, medical rationales, hormonal challenges, stress-induced ones, etc. The reasons don’t make the physical alterations right. But they do make them happen. What will make it wrong is if the aggressor is not punished for THAT action. What will make it wrong is if the aggressor does not apologize sincerely and change his/ her ways. But we cannot pretend that such fights do not happen.

  And if they happen, we can take umbrage with the aggressor and punish him. But we cannot question all that he has done prior to that event. No one is all good. No one can be. Draymond has done much for the Warriors. He has often been foolish, but we have loved him more than we have been mad at him. And yet I see largely everyone willing to kick Draymond under the bus, reviling his character completely and forgeting his past contributions. I am no Draymond fan but I know what he has brought to this team. He is flawed and deserves punishment, but not sanctimonious hate.

  To end my rambling, I quote my favorite leader. Mahatma Gandhi, whom a few of you may have heard of, said, “ The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.”

  Love. Apologies again for this long acrimonious take.

• TwoRingTest (14 ♡):

  Regarding this summer:

  After this last week, I think the Loon re-signing should pretty much get Myers an A+ for the summer.

  Looney has earned his entire salary this year by what he's doing to keep the Draymond crap from spiraling out of control. And the season hasn't even started yet.

• Sphe (12 ♡):

  Fights are common everywhere in the world. I am a Zulu man so I grew up fighting. Fighting is in my DNA. My forefathers went toe to toe with the British in the Anglo-Zulu war in 1879, winning the first battle of Isandlwana with nothing but spears. I am of the great Kings such as Shaka Zulu kaSenzangakhona, King Cetshwayo kaMpande who led the Zulu forces and was eventually captured and taken to England. He met Queen Victoria and she immediately knew she was in the company of a King and a Warrior. Stick fighting is a source of pride where I'm from. I've also witnessed gruesome violence and oppression sponsored by a government.

  That being said, I hate violence. Especially when it's unwarranted. That was unwarranted. Steph said as much. It made me sad and angry. I won't pretend to know these guys but JP looks like a good guy. I love how he hyped up Wiggs in the Finals. There is also something to be said about why we love a certain team. For me the character of these guys has been a thing to marvel at. In the NBA you get to see more of a player than you do in say, football (The one you play with your feet). I feel for my favourite Warrior in Looney, who has a kid who's looked up to him for years get punched by someone he is very close to. Every time Draymond spoke of Looney you'd just hear how close they are. So I don't think people are now suddenly forgetting what he's done but we feel differently about things. I was pissed off when he did that interview with KD, who happens to be my favourite player. I couldn't understand how you could do such a thing to your team with a guy that left. He had such a good start to the season and that gaffe was quickly forgotten.

• thesarunas (11 ♡):

  Like used-to-watch-the-Warriors-as-a-refuge-from-the-worries-of-the-real-world-but-that-is-no-longer-quite-the-case-since-a-certain-someone-went-and-threw-a-punch sad.

• TheseGuysAreF’ingGIANTS! (11 ♡):

  I enjoyed a Poole to Looney to relocating Wiggins open three. I don’t remember much Wiggins relocating in past years. Could there be another level to the Wiggins Warriors adaptation coming this year?

• Trogdor (9 ♡):

  I think there are definitely some deeper US cultural aspects at play here, especially with the general crowd that tends to hang out on this forum.

  ****Broad generalizations incoming that don't necessarily apply to each person individually****

  For a very long time the US very much had a permissive culture when it came to bad behavior by public figures. We turned a blind eye to sexual harassment/assault, drug abuse, violence, etc. Sometimes we'd complain that "celebrities can get away with anything" and then continue to buy their jerseys, watch their movies, vote for them, etc.

  With social media, and especially in a post-#metoo world, we have essentially moved from a permissive culture to a condemnation culture. We want to publicly hold every person accountable for all of their bad actions. Any past or current comment, action, inaction, or accusation which is seen as racist, bigoted, intolerant, sexist, violent, etc. we come down hard against them, often deeming that the only appropriate response is to toss them out from the public eye completely. The judgments of the masses are often harsh and swift. Rather than previously when we were essentially completely permissive, we've swung completely to the other end of the spectrum where we often seem to demand perfection. Some types of flaws are okay, certainly, but for others there is essentially zero tolerance.

  I hope that our next step is moving to an accountability culture, where people are allowed to take responsibility for and learn from their mistakes, and the masses are able to forgive those individuals and embrace and celebrate growth. One of the problems right now is that we collectively are suspicious of people who "say all the right things" because we are wary that they are simply being coached on what to say by a good PR team and are quick to label reparative behavior as performative. We need to find a way to allow people to acknowledge and grow from their mistakes without being jettisoned completely.

  For Draymond, I don't know how to judge him, but frankly I don't think it's my job to. I have empathy for all parties involved, and hope that everyone gets the help that they need in this situation, whatever it may be. If the coaching staff and team decide that bringing Draymond back into the fold and forgiving him is the correct path, I accept and support that. If they feel that irreparable damage is done and he needs to be off the team, that will make me sad but I'll trust their judgment.

• belilaugh (8 ♡):

  I don't know. In Moody's press conference he said "That is something between him and JP but me personally I'm cool with him (Draymond)". Made me wonder how many Warrior players feel that way. I think part of the "Draymond is going to have to prove it to us" message from the team could just be them sending Poole the message that they support him rather than a loss of trust in Draymond.

• belilaugh (8 ♡):

  > And yet I see largely everyone willing to kick Draymond under the bus, reviling his character completely

  I agree. It feels like revisionist history to act like the LeBron thing was part of some pattern of behavior that led to this, for instance. People are clearing Poole of any part of the scuffle because they think Draymond provoked him to shove him off...but LeBron provoking Draymond to shove him off is also on Draymond? Are we trying to be consistent or are people just shitting on Draymond from all angles knowing it is difficult to defend someone who everyone is against?

  The only incident I see that is directly relevant to this one is the bar fight, where Draymond escalated it to physical violence. What is shocking about this ordeal is just how different it is from almost everything else we've ever seen from Draymond besides that bar fight, framing it as part of a pattern of behavior from him and grouping this with yelling at KD is just not something I agree with.

  Feel like there should be more "this was a mistake" from the fanbase rather than "this is what Draymond is at his core". Doesn't mean those people can't want Draymond off the team for it, but it feels like they are throwing him under the bus like you said, to me anyway.

Dub Nation HQ Comments of Week, plus open…

it seemed to be smooth sailing until the Draymond punch

• Night Night (21 ♡):

  Downthread, I realized that it feels much better to speak kindly of Poole, versus speaking ill of Draymond.

  I'd humbly suggest that now is a time for DNHQ to shift its energy to supporting Poole, not trashing Draymond.

  Poole needs his people now, more than ever. And we all ride for Poole.

• Totembot (18 ♡):

  Love you Dray. Hopefully you get the help that you need. The internet wants your blood but I hope you find peace instead.

• Abaddon (14 ♡):

  Kerr said Kuminga had the best practice he’s ever seen him have and earned tomorrow’s start at power forward.

• DFiB (14 ♡):

  Yo! Shout out to Sab as our DNHQ Twitter aggregator!!!

  (Yes, shameless attempt to get on the next Comments Of The Week. Like if you want to see Sab get another shout out in the COTW thread!)

• kinbote (9 ♡):

  Realpolitik approach to the whole situation around Dray:

  1) Warriors get to try out JFK at the four with the starters and see how he can play with them, further accelerating the youth movement rather than chasing wins earlier in the season.

  2) The financial issue with Poole-Dray-Wiggins-Klay possibly just resolves itself in the easiest possible way, as the Warriors part ways with Dray in the next year or two are saved from sentimentally keeping the big three together as they age.

  3) The other young guys get some more playing time as well.

  4) Dray is better rested for when things really matter.

  It would be odd if this all worked out best for the dynasty, but it's certainly not out of the question. Hope Dray stays away until he's really ready to be back.

• Backpack23 (9 ♡):

  Some great quotes coming out from Dray today. I expect he means it. I believe the words will be enough to carry through good actions, and I hopefully bring the team back together for this year. That being said, I doubt any of it will move the needle on the damage done to his status as a leader. Hard to see the trust fully rebuilding from here.

• Nom De Sab (9 ♡):

  I will share this....based on these two things Draymond said it does not feel like the punch was something personal against JP. Draymond is going through shit in his personal life and took it out on JP is what it was.

  Mark Medina

  @MarkG_Medina

  ·

  33m

  Draymond Green said he has been dealing with undisclosed things in his personal life. Draymond: "When you are doing something when you step on the court, that doesn't go away. As a leader of this team, I need to have a better feel for myself."

  Mark Medina

  @MarkG_Medina

  ·

  33m

  Draymond Green said he has been dealing with undisclosed things in his personal life. Draymond: "When you are doing something when you step on the court, that doesn't go away. As a leader of this team, I need to have a better feel for myself."

  95.7 The Game

  @957thegame

  ·

  43s

  Draymond Green: “I love Jordan Poole. That’s my guy. Like I said to Jordan, I will still ride for Jordan. I still advocate for Jordan... My love for Jordan doesn't change one bit."

• Sleepy Freud (8 ♡):

  It’s like that scene in Annie Hall where Annie and Alvy are asked by their respective therapists how often they sleep together.

  ALVY: Hardly ever. Maybe three times a week.

  ANNIE: Constantly. I'd say three times a week.

• GlueAndBold (8 ♡):

  If JK wants it, look out. This could be a wild moment.

• crusty quips (8 ♡):

  I watched the entirety of Draymond's media session today and I found it sincere in regards to Draymond's self-awareness and his contrition. He said all the right things, which is a positive step in righting the team's ship. Unfortunately it's the smallest of the necessary steps, as more will depend on Draymond's actions, and even more on Jordan's response to the situation and his relationship with Draymond. There's a lot of mostly negative speculation about both causes and outcomes related to this incident from all over the NBA world right now but I'm going to continue to have some faith in the team culture to repair what has been broken.