Random Warriors fan: “Nico Mannion is the best b/u PG prospect in the Warriors’ syst…”
Perks: Wrong!
Thanks for this breakdown. He wasn’t on my radar at all until you mentioned him the other day. How would you rank him against Mannion as far as ceiling and NBA-ready? Seems like Mannion might be a little stronger and a better defender?
Hard to say until we see more of McLaughlin and how he fares against G-League and NBA competition. Mannion is more athletic but has a smaller frame. Both probably won't become impactful defenders at the NBA level. However, both are very good passers. McLaughlin right now seems a little more comfortable with his shot and overall offense, but he also has 3 years on Mannion.
At this point would say Mannion has a higher ceiling given his age, but McLaughlin is too much of an unknown right now to really say for sure either way.
Also, I see he was listed everywhere as 6’4”, but measured 6’2.5” at the combine. Did that hurt his draft stock, or was he always going to be an undrafted dude?
Didn't really see him high on big boards. Don't think 23 year-olds, who spent their career at a mid-major, and aren't super athletic or defensively versatile will get too many looks draft-wise.
Honestly havent really noticed McLaughlin much in the games. It feels like he's really picking his spots and letting things come to him. Offensively, he kind of reminds me of Brogdon: nothing that blows me away but solid overall and finds a way to get where he wants and makes the right plays. He's a bit smaller, but if he can start to look like Brogdon on defense...
It's ok. I'll always have those handful of minutes of fingers crossed in anticipation of the Warriors choosing Isaiah Joe then hearing Mannions name come across Twitter as the pick instead. Vaya con Dios Mannion. Good times. Vaya Con Dios, Nico
Seems like kind of a wash to me -- another short PG who will struggle on defense. Chiozza's adjusted numbers are mostly higher than Mannion's but not his floor spacing (shooting?) grade. That seems like kind of a big deal...
A wash? Chiozza had like 4 times as many check marks as the winner of the different categories. Assuming he picks up the offense, it seems like he’s at least a marginal improvement on the edge of the roster.
interesting (though I'm always hesitant to put too much weight on those heavily adjusted metrics like that)
-both look like decent drivers with a high-quality assist rate off those drives (not great at getting to the rim or finishing)
-Chiozza gets a LOT of love in the all in one metric comparison, but again, I'm not sure how much that says about the player, vs the rest of their team, or the model bias
Agreed, good stuff. I hope he and Guy can stick on our G League team to give them a season to develop while Jessup and Mannion in other leagues. I wonder if this is standard operating procedure for teams - to maintain player rights while developing them overseas?
The Warriors haven't really taken advantage of it recently, but it's definitely common in the NBA. Although in Mannion's case it's a bit of a delayed Nando De Colo style of draft-and-stash.
With GP2 sliding down my wishlist, I still want another big on the roster. We need that insurance. Looney and Wiseman are not iron men. What's the deal with Oliver? Don't know anything about him.
My guess is that there's a time limit on when a team can trade a player, who is then waved by the receiving team, before the original team can re-sign the player without running afoul of some obscure NBA rule.
Watching him against Orlando last night, his biggest weakness offensively is his shooting mechanics. He flicks the ball with almost no follow-through. Shades of Shawn Marion.
Good story, but it’s a hard pass from me. How do so many players reach this age and playing level and not learn proper shooting form?
I watched the shooting reel near the bottom of the article. I’m not a shot mechanics expert, but it looks pretty feathery to me and certainly looks a lot more “correct” than Haliburton’s. McLaughlin made nearly 41% of his 3’s on over 200 attempts over his final two years, so While some fine-tuning is in order, it doesn’t look like a re-build.
Does that mean we are still in the running? Money aside, he will be back-up PG with us. Not sure about his role with Celtics.
----------------------
The Celtics' more desirable route is to avoid the hard cap by offering Schroder the $5.9 million taxpayer midlevel exception, which according to ESPN's Jordan Schultz is what they've done.
Either deal would represent a significant pay cut from the four-year, $84 million extension Schroder turned down from the Los Angeles Lakers last season. But Robb reports that Schroder's free-agent options have "dried up" in the past week, and that there currently aren't any playoff-caliber teams that can offer Schroder more than the full midlevel exception or are willing to send assets to the Lakers as part of a sign-and-trade.
He'd probably be the starter there (unless they plan to start Marcus Smart at PG?), so I cannot see him coming to us to play backup to Steph. At this point, he probably wants as much playing time as possible so that he gets another big money deal next summer.
I'll be honest, I was not paying attention to this guy. He was definitely on the court in good minutes in the CA Classic games I watched, but he looked pretty outclassed by the people who were controlling the game, namely Mitchell, Kuminga, Yurtseven, and Payton II.
Sounds like he has a good attitude and a good amount of potential, but didn't quite win the body lottery to be a lock for the NBA. And comparing a 4-year player to the rest of his draft class (a bunch of dudes with a lot less high-level basketball experience and less time to fill out their physique) is kind of skewed. Still, those assists are slick. I'll keep an eye on him from here.
Certainly he wasn’t as impressive as Moody and Kuminga, but he did stand out to me as one of the better Warriors when he was involved in the play. Especially on offense. In general the game felt bogged down IMHO with GP2 being a bit of a ball hog and trying to show off his offensive skills. Which didn’t work out well all that! I’d like to see a SL game with more Guy and McLaughlin and less GP2 to see what these guys can do with more touches and when they are on the court with better teammates.
This suggests to me that defense is not a high priority to you (Not criticizing. I disagree but both of us are just internet randos so neither opinion is very important :p)
With Chiozza already on a 2 way, what options do we have to keep this guy? We're not gonna give the 15th roster spot I'm pretty sure, and Mannion might be on the other 2 way (though I don't see how Mannion and Chiozza make sense rather than a guy like Mulder or Ryan Taylor).
>Nico Mannion is the main player that Virtus Bologna is targeting at guard position after Chris Chiozza agreed on a two-way deal with Warriors, sources tell @Sportando. Jaleen Smith is another player on the list.
>Nico Mannion and Virtus Bologna are discussing the length of the contract, I am told
Having Mannion play in the Italian league is a win for the Warriors. He gets another year or 2 of professional experience on somebody else's payroll and they retain the rights to sign him if he excels and wants to return to the NBA. Even if he signs a 3 year contract he would only be 23 when it expires.
A year younger than Davion Mitchell three years from now, lol. But it sounds like they could reclaim him in any off-season if he’s killing it and looks NBA ready.
Our 2026 NBA championship starting five of Nico-Poole-Moody-Kuminga-Wiseman remains in order. :-)
Funny to think about 2026. Wiggins, Looney and JTA will all still be pretty not-old. Curry, Klay and Dray will still be starting, but only until Curry and Klay each make a 3-pointer and Dray picks up a technical, then all three will leave the game and wander threw the stands signing autographs and posing for pics.
Although to be fair that was my impression off of his college tape. Haven't noticed it as much in his three SL games. Possible he's already worked on it significantly. Doesn't feel like he's been a liability defensively so far. Hasn't been getting stops, but hasn't also been getting repeatedly burned/exposed.
JROC is the real deal and I think a better fit at #2 PG than Poole. JROC dishes and plays under control and runs the offense.
“The McLaughlin Report”
Random Warriors fan: “Nico Mannion is the best b/u PG prospect in the Warriors’ syst…”
Perks: Wrong!
Thanks for this breakdown. He wasn’t on my radar at all until you mentioned him the other day. How would you rank him against Mannion as far as ceiling and NBA-ready? Seems like Mannion might be a little stronger and a better defender?
Hard to say until we see more of McLaughlin and how he fares against G-League and NBA competition. Mannion is more athletic but has a smaller frame. Both probably won't become impactful defenders at the NBA level. However, both are very good passers. McLaughlin right now seems a little more comfortable with his shot and overall offense, but he also has 3 years on Mannion.
At this point would say Mannion has a higher ceiling given his age, but McLaughlin is too much of an unknown right now to really say for sure either way.
Also, I see he was listed everywhere as 6’4”, but measured 6’2.5” at the combine. Did that hurt his draft stock, or was he always going to be an undrafted dude?
seems like people still use with-shoes measurements quite often, I bet everyone knew he was 6'4" w/ shoes.
Didn't really see him high on big boards. Don't think 23 year-olds, who spent their career at a mid-major, and aren't super athletic or defensively versatile will get too many looks draft-wise.
Honestly havent really noticed McLaughlin much in the games. It feels like he's really picking his spots and letting things come to him. Offensively, he kind of reminds me of Brogdon: nothing that blows me away but solid overall and finds a way to get where he wants and makes the right plays. He's a bit smaller, but if he can start to look like Brogdon on defense...
Did we just replace our Italian PG with another Italian PG
And just as I was settling into the "Marinara Mamba" nickname...
That nickname will still work for the new guy!
Except he’s not a redhead
Agreed... Squid Ink Pasta Mamba doesn't quite flow as well
Combine them and you get either the exotic jetsetter “Nico Chiozza” or the corn-fed American “Chris Mannion”…
Mannion - No Mo. https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/nico-mannion-leaves-warriors-sign-italys-virtus-bologna
It's ok. I'll always have those handful of minutes of fingers crossed in anticipation of the Warriors choosing Isaiah Joe then hearing Mannions name come across Twitter as the pick instead. Vaya con Dios Mannion. Good times. Vaya Con Dios, Nico
*arriverderci
Some Chiozza numbers compared to Mannion:
https://twitter.com/__adel22/status/1425124136817504258
Seems like kind of a wash to me -- another short PG who will struggle on defense. Chiozza's adjusted numbers are mostly higher than Mannion's but not his floor spacing (shooting?) grade. That seems like kind of a big deal...
A wash? Chiozza had like 4 times as many check marks as the winner of the different categories. Assuming he picks up the offense, it seems like he’s at least a marginal improvement on the edge of the roster.
Full disclosure, I can’t tell you what each of those acronym stats represents.
interesting (though I'm always hesitant to put too much weight on those heavily adjusted metrics like that)
-both look like decent drivers with a high-quality assist rate off those drives (not great at getting to the rim or finishing)
-Chiozza gets a LOT of love in the all in one metric comparison, but again, I'm not sure how much that says about the player, vs the rest of their team, or the model bias
It’s too bad they weren’t both there in SL to compare in similar settings
Great write up Perks!
Agreed, good stuff. I hope he and Guy can stick on our G League team to give them a season to develop while Jessup and Mannion in other leagues. I wonder if this is standard operating procedure for teams - to maintain player rights while developing them overseas?
The Warriors haven't really taken advantage of it recently, but it's definitely common in the NBA. Although in Mannion's case it's a bit of a delayed Nando De Colo style of draft-and-stash.
It seems common. I know the Spurs are pretty well known for this. Here's an older but interesting list: https://hoopshype.com/2018/09/28/nba-draft-and-stash-players/
I only recognize maybe 3 or 4 names... of which maybe 1 has ever made it on an active nba roster...
Of note: Timma (of Puffin/Tropical Fake Rutger Hauer fame) is an Orlando "draft and stash" from the 2013 draft.
Ha. I would not have been surprised if you had said 1993. Dude looks like he’s 47.
I said in the other thread: he looks the sun-baked beach bum love child of Rick Barry and Rutger Hauer.
Whatever you do, don’t pick him up if you see him hitchhiking…
I honestly thought he was pretty impressive in that game.
Throw in Max Headroom and you've got it, Sleepy.
With a pinch of Cars’ bassist/vocalist, the late great Ben Orr.
Also: when the zombie apocalypse comes, make sure you have Woody Harrelson, Emma Stone, and Kyle Guy in your crew.
I'm gonna be honest, I'd have Emma Stone in my non-zombie apocalypse crew too.
I should add, there are definitely notable draft-and-stash names, just not on that list. Just to name a few:
Manu (<-- arguably the guy that started the trend?)
Jokic
Kirilenko
Peja
With GP2 sliding down my wishlist, I still want another big on the roster. We need that insurance. Looney and Wiseman are not iron men. What's the deal with Oliver? Don't know anything about him.
Can't really say Wiseman is or isn't an iron man yet, but I agree with needing another big..like Chriss. I can't believe this still isn't done yet
My guess is that there's a time limit on when a team can trade a player, who is then waved by the receiving team, before the original team can re-sign the player without running afoul of some obscure NBA rule.
While I agree, with 2 separate injuries last year and as a big man, the arrow is pointing away from "iron man"
I think they should give him a training camp invite, he has looked good to me running the offense
Watching him against Orlando last night, his biggest weakness offensively is his shooting mechanics. He flicks the ball with almost no follow-through. Shades of Shawn Marion.
Good story, but it’s a hard pass from me. How do so many players reach this age and playing level and not learn proper shooting form?
I watched the shooting reel near the bottom of the article. I’m not a shot mechanics expert, but it looks pretty feathery to me and certainly looks a lot more “correct” than Haliburton’s. McLaughlin made nearly 41% of his 3’s on over 200 attempts over his final two years, so While some fine-tuning is in order, it doesn’t look like a re-build.
Yahoo Sports on Schroder below.
Does that mean we are still in the running? Money aside, he will be back-up PG with us. Not sure about his role with Celtics.
----------------------
The Celtics' more desirable route is to avoid the hard cap by offering Schroder the $5.9 million taxpayer midlevel exception, which according to ESPN's Jordan Schultz is what they've done.
Either deal would represent a significant pay cut from the four-year, $84 million extension Schroder turned down from the Los Angeles Lakers last season. But Robb reports that Schroder's free-agent options have "dried up" in the past week, and that there currently aren't any playoff-caliber teams that can offer Schroder more than the full midlevel exception or are willing to send assets to the Lakers as part of a sign-and-trade.
“Okay, okay Lakers…I’m just fuckin’ witcha. I hereby accept your offer of $84 million for four years.”
He'd probably be the starter there (unless they plan to start Marcus Smart at PG?), so I cannot see him coming to us to play backup to Steph. At this point, he probably wants as much playing time as possible so that he gets another big money deal next summer.
I believe they told him he'd be backing up Smart
That's a BIG step back. I'd rather back up Steph.
Eh. More opportunity for him to beat out Smart than Steph
I'll be honest, I was not paying attention to this guy. He was definitely on the court in good minutes in the CA Classic games I watched, but he looked pretty outclassed by the people who were controlling the game, namely Mitchell, Kuminga, Yurtseven, and Payton II.
Sounds like he has a good attitude and a good amount of potential, but didn't quite win the body lottery to be a lock for the NBA. And comparing a 4-year player to the rest of his draft class (a bunch of dudes with a lot less high-level basketball experience and less time to fill out their physique) is kind of skewed. Still, those assists are slick. I'll keep an eye on him from here.
Certainly he wasn’t as impressive as Moody and Kuminga, but he did stand out to me as one of the better Warriors when he was involved in the play. Especially on offense. In general the game felt bogged down IMHO with GP2 being a bit of a ball hog and trying to show off his offensive skills. Which didn’t work out well all that! I’d like to see a SL game with more Guy and McLaughlin and less GP2 to see what these guys can do with more touches and when they are on the court with better teammates.
I think he has looked better then GP2
This suggests to me that defense is not a high priority to you (Not criticizing. I disagree but both of us are just internet randos so neither opinion is very important :p)
With Chiozza already on a 2 way, what options do we have to keep this guy? We're not gonna give the 15th roster spot I'm pretty sure, and Mannion might be on the other 2 way (though I don't see how Mannion and Chiozza make sense rather than a guy like Mulder or Ryan Taylor).
A strong possibility to keep him is the E10 and a G League assignment.
Just updated it, but looking like Mannion is heading overseas which would open up an opportunity possibly for McLaughlin.
>Nico Mannion is the main player that Virtus Bologna is targeting at guard position after Chris Chiozza agreed on a two-way deal with Warriors, sources tell @Sportando. Jaleen Smith is another player on the list.
>Nico Mannion and Virtus Bologna are discussing the length of the contract, I am told
https://twitter.com/Carchia/status/1425089952749129728?s=20
Posted in other thread, but will re-post here.
I guess the Chiozza makes more sense if Mannion was planning on playing overseas rather than take the two-way QO from the Warriors.
@GSWReddit says the Warriors will still have Mannion's RFA rights while he plays overseas as long as they submit a QO every year.
Having Mannion play in the Italian league is a win for the Warriors. He gets another year or 2 of professional experience on somebody else's payroll and they retain the rights to sign him if he excels and wants to return to the NBA. Even if he signs a 3 year contract he would only be 23 when it expires.
A year younger than Davion Mitchell three years from now, lol. But it sounds like they could reclaim him in any off-season if he’s killing it and looks NBA ready.
Our 2026 NBA championship starting five of Nico-Poole-Moody-Kuminga-Wiseman remains in order. :-)
Or is it McLaughlin-Poole-Moody-Kuminga-Wiseman?
Funny to think about 2026. Wiggins, Looney and JTA will all still be pretty not-old. Curry, Klay and Dray will still be starting, but only until Curry and Klay each make a 3-pointer and Dray picks up a technical, then all three will leave the game and wander threw the stands signing autographs and posing for pics.
Leave it to Sleepy to keep the priorities straight.
True, Kerr and co really hate that.
Although to be fair that was my impression off of his college tape. Haven't noticed it as much in his three SL games. Possible he's already worked on it significantly. Doesn't feel like he's been a liability defensively so far. Hasn't been getting stops, but hasn't also been getting repeatedly burned/exposed.