I’d like to keep a google doc tracking the Warriors free agent targets, which we would update as the news of various signings is announced. This will not be quite as thrilling as the live Draft tracker, since the news rolled in quickly, but it seems worth a try.
If there are a couple of you who plan to be tracking free agency and are interested in volunteering to keep the doc up to date as news trickles in, please contact me at apricotan@gmail.com with your DNHQ user handle and I’ll pick a few of you as editors to collectively keep it updated.
What fields are you planning on having? Just name? Adding the contract and where the person signed would be interesting additions for future reference, I think. You can always get it from spotrac, but it would be convenient to have it all in one place.
If you have editors, then the additional workload shouldn't be high, I would think.
Mark Titus on Chris Paul’s fit with Steph Curry on the Warriors & NBA Draft recap | Hoops Tonight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oBDcZMhGp0 (Warriors talk starts at 21:16, CP3 on the Warriors at 30:06).
Dario Saric is the obvious top free agency target to me (I'm assuming Love isn't going anywhere after that playoff run) to cover the "frontcourt shooting" role that the Warriors are currently lacking. Getting someone to fill that role is probably their biggest concern.
I think the Warriors also go for a ballhandler and I'd say my top three targets for that in no order are Justise Winslow, Dennis Smith Jr, and Ty Jerome (also would be interested in Lowry if he becomes available). Jerome as we know can shoot it and pass it and has a nice floater game and is well liked in the locker room. The fact that the Warriors "aren't expected to offer a QO" suggests to me he is not their first choice, but it sounds like he'd be an option for them. Winslow is 6'6 and a strong, versatile defender with a 2.3 A/TO ratio last season, obviously cannot shoot for shit and doesn't seem like he has great touch though. Smith is a 6'2 ballhandler who also cannot shoot for shit, but has nice burst and vertical athleticism for a roster that lacks rim pressure, had a 3.2 A/TO ratio with 4.8 APG last season, and most importantly was rated as one of the best defensive players in the league by some advanced metrics:
Ideally I'd like the Warriors to use the remaining two slots to get another veteran wing and another center but I could see them keeping a roster spot open again. I think that'd be a mistake (unless TJD is "ready") but we'll see what they do.
I think other than a stretch big, the top target will be someone as close as possible to Jordan Poole. A scoring combo guard. Someone who can knock down open looks from CP3, but also generate a shot in a pinch. Someone who could play 30+ minutes when both Steph and CP3 are out and provide both the ball-handling and the scoring.
Are Shake Milton or Jaylen Nowell both getting raises? Reggie Jackson maybe. Austin Rivers used to be this type of guy but he has turned into a very low usage guard.
You're right, it's very limited. At which point then I think they try to bring back Ty and then have a guy or two like this on a two way.
Yeah I bet they have Les on a two-way regardless. If they strike out on someone who's played in the league a bit he will have an opportunity to be that guy.
Even if they bring someone in on a one year I think he'll get some chances to be that guy. You never know. This is definitely a skillset where some guys pop from the G-League.
I'd rather have Jerome's steady hand and competent shot back, but a GPII-DSJr. tag team (along with more minutes from JK and Wiggins) would definitely solve the problems we had with perimeter and point-of-attack defense last year.
we deffinitle need a third guard, we have pod now but i think ty did a great job last year filling the void with hustle, 3 point shooting and taking care of the ball...the same for lamb. Hope both come back this year for the minimum
Yeah, my assumption is that Podziemski is an end of bench non-factor next season. Who is the last 20 year old, offensively-oriented smaller guard to come from a mid-major and produce in their rookie season? Landry Shamet maybe? It's a big jump in competition level. I'm sure it'll be blamed on Kerr if he doesn't play but I think it'll be pretty standard. But it'd certainly be nice if he breaks the mold and can contribute immediately.
I figured Podz will play in SC a lot. DSJr is interesting for vet min. Dennis Schröder also is UFA and was vet min this past season but he played well enough that I think he will get a better deal this summer.
Landry Shamet is out of the question. He just went to the Wiz in the Beal deal and has a guaranteed contract for this coming season at $10.25M.
I meant that Shamet is the last example I can think of of a 6'4 or under rookie from a mid-major school who produced as a rookie. Although I guess you can also add Bones Hyland in there, actually.
I would love Schroder and maybe he still has good feelings from playing with CP3 in OKC but I assume he's going back to the Lakers.
I was picking on baseball yesterday and the ensuing discussion led me to a bit of research and now I'm back to picking on it again. But it's an off-topic rant so I'll put it in the thread, and parties not interested don't have to read it ...
I'll chime in. A "Cricket Tragic" here. To take Asher's point about collective skillsets in a sport, cricket (baseballs cousin) has these things called Allrounders. Players that can both bowl (pitch) and bat (hit) above average. In cricket, everyone is in the batting lineup (11 players to a team). It is usually staggered from top order hitter (able to face the starting pitchers and brand new ball) to middle order (able to face second-fourth change bowlers with different styles) to tail enders (not very good hitters as they are the bowlers/pitchers themselves).
All rounders like Ohtani (elite in both disciplines, if I'm reading correct) are "rare" (maybe a handful throughout history) but the idea of a pitcher/batter is very common. In the 80's the sports headlines were dominated by 4 (FOUR!) all time great allrounders from India, New Zealand, England, and Pakistan.
Where it gets interesting and comes back to Asher's point is up until the 2000's, the main specialist position was a wicetkeeper (catcher) who also needed to bat, but wasn't really expected to do well. "You are a specialist catcher so focus on that and don't waste too much time on your batting skills because we have 6 main batters to score our runs". A catcher was seen as a "traditional" position which had it's own conservative culture.
Enter Adam Gilchrist. A player who was an elite hitter and who could also do an above average job as catcher. Now his team had the unfair advantage of potentially playing another pitcher or allrounder and it wouldn't affect their ability to score runs as much. This revolutionized the catcher position and within a few years, you would not be selected as a catcher in a team if you cannot be an average or better hitter (or a catching/allrounder) , even if for decades you had to know how to bat, just not expected to do it that well.
TLDR: Ohtani would be a great allrounder cricketer but certainly not the only one. A stuffy specialist position was revolutionized when one player proved you could combine two sport-specific skillsets really well.
That's super interesting! Dunno much about cricket outside of stuff I heard about growing up with an Aussie friend, so this development wants something I learned. Baseball sorta had that realization as well with analytics driven player dev. Although defensive specialists are still common, most top-line catchers and SS aren't complete zeros with the bat anymore, either.
Thanks CK. Fun fact, the first international game of cricket was played between The United States and Canada in 1844! I do love the fact cricket was spread around the Colonies and so each colony developed their own style/brand of cricket based on population and geographical factors. I could argue cricket is the more skilled (but hey, I played it, come at me bro :P) but think there is certainly some appeal and appreciation that can cross over the sports. I have slowly started following more baseball. Would be interesting to hear if anyone who has gone the other way and why...
Oh wow! I knew it was part of the British colonial export, but I sorta assumed the first international game would've been england vs. France or something. Makes sense that two neighboring anglo countries did it first though.
I'm an apple pie gal myself, so not me lol, but yeah it'd be interesting to hear! I did enjoy watching it with my friend, and can getting into it if I didn't already have a stick-ball sport I follow. I'll defer to someone who's watched both on which game is more skill-oriented ;)
Interesting discussion, BTW. I kind of lost interest in baseball in the early 2000s. Other than being mildly interested in seeing if the Padres ever pull their heads out of their asses in my lifetime, I can't say I've had much reason to watch a game.
I do understand that sports and fandom don't actually make sense. But: it seems like only in baseball would Shohei Ohtani's performance draw such astonished gasps. He *puts on a uniform and gets 4-5 at-bats on days when he's not pitching!!!!!!* WHAT A PHENOMENAL EXERTION!!!!
I get that pitching and hitting are hard to do well. And I get that if you pitch starter innings, your arm will be too tired to pitch for a few days. But why can't you HIT on off days? This is like saying that on his days off Steph Curry doesn't just rest, he actually golfs -- oh wait, that's true.
And the expectation that a guy can't pitch and hit makes no sense in the first place. That's like saying "He can dribble at elite levels AND HE CAN ALSO SHOOT THE THREE!!!! How????"
Baseball is, I submit, a wimp sport. A lot of standing around. I know, I've played.
Jakob Ingebrigtsen, distance runner, works out seven days a week. Three of those days he runs a 10K in the morning and another one in the afternoon. Those are the easy days.
I've also wondered the same... what about hitting and pitching makes those two skills nearly mutually exclusive (at least at the elite level)?
In other sports, mutually exclusive skills also exist but often there's a physical explanation. For example, the intersection between kickers, punt returners, and offensive linemen doesn't exist (afaik), and in basketball 6'3" paint protectors don't exist.
You could argue that goalkeepers in hockey and futbol can't really play other positions either but they're also restricted by the rules of the game... you can't just switch from being a goalkeeper to other positions in the middle of play... so there is no incentive added for being able to play other positions.
In baseball, being able to play both sides would seem like a set of skills that would lead to more $$$... so why aren't more players able to do it?
My argument is that the baseball players are able to do it, if encouraged through their early years. The problem, I think, is that baseball is the most conservative sport around. It revels on its own conservatism. If you’re a great high school pitcher AND hitter, the scouts the agents the ball clubs will all tell you that you have to pick one thing.
No they don't. What actually happens is that they start doing significantly better at one than the other as they go through the minors, and end up sticking with what they are better at. There's a history of this, long and documented. Right now, for instance, there's Reggie Crawford in our very own Giants minor league system.
Do you think maybe the lack of salary cap has some influence? Like if a pitcher can bat NNN, but the team can afford to pay $5M for somebody who can bat NNN+X, why wouldn't they do it?
I don't, personally, but I don't know the finances of baseball well. My own bet guess is that baseball is just conservative and prevents young players from doing both because you Just Can't Do That in The Majors.
You need to understand just how singular what he is doing is. No one has ever come close to being able to do it. Striking out 10 as a pitcher and hitting two homers as a hitter in the same game might have been a thing that was possible (Bumgarner did something similar once I think), but Ohtani is among the league leaders in both pitching and hitting and specifically home runs and strikeouts. That is earth-shattering to baseball fans.
I AGREE that it is singular and earth-shattering. That's my point, it's an exception.
But WHY is it that? Because he is a mutant from outer space?
I submit that no, he is not a mutant, he is actually extraordinary at wo baseball skills, but so a lot of other players could be.
My beef is not with the player, it's with WITH THE LACK OF IMAGINATION IN THE SPORT. . When Kuminga hits a few threes, Kerr says "ADD SOME REBOUNDING" because he *expects* multi-skill play. Expects it.
I will bet that if players over the past decades had been encouraged to pitch and hit, we would have seen hundreds of players do both at elite levels. And I will predict that in the next decades we will see an Ohtani effect and all of a sudden everyone will say oh wait, you can do both.
Teams have been trying to raise two-way stars for ages. It just isn't a thing that is typically possible. Many hitters have great arms, but whether it's something about focus, or body mechanics, or something else, nothing ever comes of it. I know you want to see this as some kind of crazy market inefficiency, but people have never thought something like this (and by this, I mean someone leading the league in both power hitting and power pitching and providing elite value at both) possible BECAUSE whenever it's been tried, it hasn't worked.
I sorta thing Asher has a point regarding institutional inertia/ conservative thinking. Like, yeah everyone who's been around a baseball for more than a second knows a pitcher who can hit opens up a lot more roster flexibility. The trouble is that pitchers break, so the better a pitcher can hit, the more opportunity cost you'd pay if they get hurt pitching. The traditional calculus has usually been to choose one and focus on it. However, the closest we've come to an Ohtani situation was Babe Ruth, and let's just say 1918 isn't a really useful comp for 2023. Maybe Ohtani's success will yield more effort in building out the necessary knowledge and organizational capacity for more Ohtani's? Orgs now have an actual data point to base their internal metrics on what this opens up.
Like, how different is training pitchers to hit compared to how orgs now treat fielding positions? 2002, you were either a SS, 2B or 3B and only switched when the team acquired a player at the same position or you really sucked at one of those. Now? Infields are basically just a collection of defensive talent, with a slight limit at SS and C because of their uniquely important roles.
Idk, I could be misreading it, but behind Asher's more provocative tone I think they're hitting at something interesting
Personally I find it very disrespectful to Ohtani to suggest that there should be plenty more like him and the reason there aren't is a lack of creativity. The MLB put Jim Abbott on the mound, where he flourished at one point. Did you ever see his amazing way of switching the mitt onto his pitching hand? For a more local example, look at the delivery of Tyler Rogers. Baseball is creative and finds ways to fix problems. Simply put, there isn't a problem of a whole bunch of ace hitters who would also be ace pitchers if they were just challenged appropriately to flex that muscle.
I'll be a resident baseball mostly-fan: hitting a baseball coming at you above 95 with the movement even mediocre pitchers have now is probably the hardest sports skill to have. Like, it's really really hard lol. So Ohtani doing both well is about as impressive to me as if Wembanyama had Curry's range; sure it's just shooting a basketball, but the skill that you're demonstrating is crazy impressive.
That he has enough batting prowess to be a really solid DH is insane, it's not that people are agag over him playing more than once a week I think.
I agree that hitting a baseball in play is hard. That's why doing it 30% of the time is a huge success. No argument.
But throwing and hitting the ball are fundamental baseball skills. It really shouldn't be so surprising for someone to be elite at both.
Chess champ Magnus Carlsen casually plays soccer. If he were world class at soccer, *that* would be pretty impressive, because it's so hard to be either one, and the skills don't overlap.
But a kid learning to play baseball hits and throws it constantly. Practice after practice from an early age, they are doing both things. Every single workout. Some of them are bound to be good at both.
And it actually works out that way in lower leagues. In every Little League, some kid is the star pitcher and hitter. Happens all the time in high school, too.
These are grouped skills. I'm not disputing that they are hard to do well, I'm saying that they overlap.
Citing Wembanyama hurt your case. He already can dunk and block shots and shoot the three, all at world class levels. Everyone in the NBA (except DeAndre Jordan) has multiple skills at elite levels.
Some gymnasts specialize in balance beam, some in floor exercises, but so many can do all the stuff. That's athleticism.
I'm not knocking Ohtani, I'm knocking all the other players who don't do this.
Because baseball is the ultimate sport for telling you a singular talent isn't enough. The rest of the team minus another HOFer in Mike Trout drinks soup with a fork
I'm also a lifelong baseball fan and played it a lot, and I'm a member of the Society for American Baseball Research (SABR). Asher, I am amazed that someone who played the game would not recognize how rare Otani's talents are. He is not just a pitcher, he is one of the best pitchers in MLB. He is not just a hitter, he is leading the AL in home runs right now and hitting .304. There have been other players who switched from pitching to being a position player, like Lefty O'Doul, Bob Lemon, and Smokey Joe Wood, but in the past 130 years, only Babe Ruth's accomplishments doing both compare to Otani. He's absolutely killing it.
Right, we *agree* that it's rare. But I'm saying there's no particular reason it has to be rare. It's not rare at lower levels like Little League and high school.
I understand he's performing at elite levels in two skills. So is every basketball player you know of except DeAndre Jordan, every gymnast, etc. Decathletes look at this nonsense and laugh like this "ha ha ah ha hah."
It's not rare. It's SINGULAR. And your comparison with basketball is ignorant. I know you are not ignorant, but this insistence on these things being comparable is ridiculous. No one is "laughing" at Ohtani's greatness.
And Ruth basically switched from a pitcher who can hit to Babe Ruth. Iirc he was known to have a pretty good bat, but he perfected his craft after pitching, right?
Before 1918, Ruth was entirely a pitcher except for some pinch hitting. He was already a fine hitter but with limited plate appearances. That was the Deadball Era, with some very large fields, so HRs were relatively rare and often inside the park HRs. For instance in 1915, his first full season in the majors, Ruth hit .315 with 4 HRs but that was in 92 ABs. For perspective the AL average HRs per team that year was 20 for an entire team. So he was already probably the best slugger around in limited ABs. While with the Red Sox, he was considered arguably the best left-handed pitcher in the league.
During his final two years in Boston, Ruth was in transition, still pitching but not as much, and playing a lot of outfield, and he was already the best slugger in baseball. In 1918, he was 13-7 with a 2.22 ERA and also hit .300 and led the majors in HRs with 11. The next year, 1919, was his breakout year as a slugger; he hit .322 with 29 HRs to lead the majors. That is more HRs than four entire AL teams and six NL teams had that year. Nobody will ever do THAT again! He also was 9-5 with a 2.97 ERA. He was sold to the Yankees after that year and only rarely pitched after that.
Otani is playing a lot as both an outfielder and a pitcher at the same time to an even greater extent than Ruth did. Ruth was more dominant compared to the rest of baseball in his day than any player has ever been.
Right. Why can't *any pitcher in 100 years* do that also? Babe Ruth was not from some other planet. This is a cultural issue, to my mind. Nobody even let Dave Winfield try. They were like you're a hitter, hit. The sport has limited imagination, is my point.
After some thought, I think I agree with the sense you're putting out, but maybe not the wording? The sport knew you could do it, but the reason for more specialized skills (beyond how hard it really is to do both jobs well) is that the best hitters stick around longer than the best pitchers. Pitchers are both the most individually valuable talent on a team and the most likely to break/ lost it randomly. They also have different needs for training/ dev in the minors than hitters. So it made sense that, all else being equal, a pitcher will put less time into hitting and star hitters will be shielded from pitching. You also see that with other positions, like most of the time (now) a good hitting catcher will spot start other positions to relieve them of the catching grind.
I do think baseball FOs knew you could conceivably pitch and hit given they see it constantly in prospects at all non US pro baseball. The reason they didn't bite (in my story, at least) has as much to do with small-c conservative tendencies in baseball. That said, maybe this is analogous to Steph highlighting a strategy that sounded good in theory but rarely was tried...
No Asher, Ruth WAS from another planet. He was one of the greatest natural athletes of the 20th century. He could have been a superstar in other sports but baseball and boxing were THE professional sports back then in the USA (unless you include horse racing). He was built like Hercules in those days, not at all the fat guy most people think of; that happened only late in his career. He could run, too. The closest basketball equivalent might be Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell, guys who were track and field stars as well as basketball superstars.
why is so important to overpay or not for draymond? is not our money. The guy totally is worth between 25-33 millons dollars, and im not the one saying it, teams in the nba value him that much
As Sab posted above, if you stay over the second apron, your pick moves to the end of the round.
So, if we just throw money at players, we're probably looking at drafting in the high 20s for the forseeable future. That will eventually gut the team ... no assets to trade, no good players coming in.
I think the clock for exceeding the second apron twice in four years starts at the end of the upcoming season, so Draymond's salary for the next year should have no impact. I'd expect a contract structure where salary decreases from year 1 to years 2 and 3. Then Klay comes off his mega contract after this upcoming season.
Dray+Klay+TPE need to add up to under the second apron next year. Those 8 million Dray gets could impact being able to keep Klay or sign a TPE player. I too care not about the tax bill. But I do care about retaining Klay and being able to get the best possible TPE use when losing JP/CP.
Of course Dray might be trying to get enough $ to ensure the Dubs can’t get out of the repeater tax by moving off of CP and Klay for vet mins/2nd round salary slots.
Klay wont make 40 again...and i prefer dray over a TPE player. Moody and kuminga extensiones comes the year after. Next year we will be under de cba tax of 179
Was thinking on some stretch big options other than Saric, Kevin Love, Mo Wagner or maybe more guys like Olynyk get waived. Or bringing back Jamychal. It's just not a deep pool so here's some other potential guys if they don't work out.
Christian Wood - Arguably more talented than any of these guys above. I wonder if there's the small chance his market just gets squeezed. Where rebuilding teams don't want him around the young players and contending teams don't want to use an exception on a guy that Kidd gave up on. Small small chance, but non-zero.
Thomas Bryant - A little similar to above, but I do wonder if they could pitch hard on a role for him. Like you will come in and get a ton of shots on the 2nd unit. Let it fly like Mo Speights.
Boogie Cousins - The really available but huge question mark. I think there's a bit of a parallel to him and when the Warriors revived Javale McGee in the way the league had totally given up on a talented big man who wasn't all that old. Could a bit of humbling and some wisdom of age be enough
Jay Huf - Maybe more of a two way guy. Was the G-League defensive player of the year. Made 40% of his 3's on limited volume. But in his late season limited minutes stint he got up about 5 per 36 and made half. (This is 95 total minutes and 12 total shots for context. it's really limited).
We don't get to sign people from the buyout market because of the second apron. I think but am not sure that starts this year. Someone who knows more about it please correct me if I am mistaken.
Christian Wood is an enigma. His offensive stats were good last season (26 mins/game, 16.6 points, 51.5% FG, 37.6% threes, 7.3 rebounds, 1.8 assists), but the Mavs failed to finish above .500. Is it because his game lacks consistency? Or is it his defense?
Thomas Bryant offensive stats look solid, but Lakers fans said that his defense was horrible, which was the reason why they got rid of him.
Defense is weak on both. I think that's one thing, but there's some immaturity and selfishness on both too. Like they're black holes, so they're not executing the plan.
I think the pitch to them would be "Try your best on D and CP3 will feed you a bunch of good looks on O. Knock em down."
Per Slater, no QOs to Lamb or Ty Jerome, so both become UFA. They could still be brought back as fallback options in case nothing better materializes. Quinones likely back as a 2-way unless he gets a spot on the 15 for another team. Link also includes a list of possible FA targets for roster spots 12-14.
He's not eligible for a two-way. And if they were planning on bringing him back as a first priority, I'm not seeing the benefit of rescinding his QO and letting him become unrestricted.
I am trying to be more grown up and zen every day. Personal growth is hard. At 69 harder still. I realize that Dray is a key. That he and Steph are the only players they cannot afford to lose under real time clear rational analysis. Klay. Loon. Wiggins. Donte. GP2 are all key. But others do what they do. Not with the same personality or vibe. But they could be replaced. Truth be told from a purely basketball standpoint GP2 might be the 3rd unreplaceable one. The salary cap is a bad concept. The luxury cap is worse. I believe in the free market, even in the age of Bezos and Musk and Zuckerberg and other evil rich people. But the salary cap and the CBA requires that you be non-sentimental in the harsh light of a non championship off season when you look at your roster. I would like nothing better than for Steph and Klay and Dray to stay together their entire career. Does Dray want that or a stupid amount of money? The starting five is still the most efficient in the league. Why would you ever break that up? The Lakers switched everything, forced the Warriors out of their sets, sat Davis in front of the basket and wore down Steph in pick and roll. To combat that scenario CP makes sense. Play Dray and Wiggs to start. With CP and Steph at guard. Klay and Wiggs at wings. Dray at 5. Spread the floor. Run the motion sets. Run pick and roll early in clock or late. Let Dray be the roll guy with CP. Let Wiggs be the flasher from the weak side. I thought they didn't always have enough shooters on the floor against Sacto and LA. Going smaller with Klay on the wing creates more mismatches. More wing jumpers. More catch and shoot three's. I am starting to think that CP is an upgrade because he makes pick and roll possible and because he stabilizes the second unit. They have to re-sign Dray. I tire of his antics, his insecurity, his mouth, but not his play. I assume he feels loyalty to Steve Kerr, to Steph, to Klay and to the franchise. But you never really know for sure. The Warriors may have to reinvent themselves. Not always the worst thing. Winning is much fun. But truthfully building a winner is even more fun. If Dray leaves they have to do it all differently. Be interesting to see what they can come up with. Be less noise and nonsense in the lab for sure
I imagine Looney's minutes are limited to prevent recurrence of his hip issues but I may be wrong. He rarely plays a lot of minutes even when Draymond has been injured.
Free markets are fine, but there is no real good reason for not increasing taxes on people that become fabulously wealthy due to government protected patent and copyright monopolies. There is also no really good reason why Joe Lacob's tax rate should be 1/2 of Steph Curry's tax rate (if that).
I don't "believe in the free market," and I don't agree that "free markets are fine." They're killing us all. I know that's not the topic of this site but it popped up in this thread so I thought I'd mention.
You have to kill off monopolies for a free market to function, and right now we have monopolies using govt legislation to enhance their monopolistic powers in the US. We have the worst of all worlds for consumers here.
At least Europe is still fighting the good fight on the big tech front.
I didn't want to get into externalities and not being able to choose your parents, or what medical problems you might have. In the context of the NBA, I do think a freer market with fewer payroll restrictions would be better for the players and for the fans.
Conventional economic theory says it wouldn't affect ticket prices at all. Ticket prices are (in theory) set to maximize profit. The revenue split between owners and players doesn't change that.
Fanspo All In to Win (Character not required) Under 2nd Apron Lala-Palooza (178.5 mil)
CP3, Curry, Wiggins, Dray, Looney
Pat Bev, Grayson Allen, Dillon Brooks, GP2, Meyers Leonard
Ben Simmons, bPod, Anthony Lamb, Andre (just 'cuz) or Dwight Howard (he's a champion)
Works on Fanspo.
So many rosters, so little time. I know this team might seem a little toxic at first glance, but you won't get a hit sitting on a pitch. It may not be All In on winning, but it sure is All In on something. ;-)
Milwaukee Bucks guard Jevon Carter will decline his $2.24 million player option for the 2023-24 season and become an unrestricted free agent, a league source told @hoopshype. Carter, a strong defender, shot 42.1 percent from 3-point range in 81 regular-season games played.
Curry, Thompson, Wiggins, Green (maybe) Looney, CP3, GP2, Moody, KUMINGA, Podz, TDJ and then scraps. A pretty solid 8-9 man rotation. Add a few journeymen, a few two-way contracts and its all good.
That's the point of the second apron restrictions. The league wants to prevent wealthier teams from being able to significantly outspend other teams, and we're the poster child for that. It would make sense except for the fact that the core of our team is home-grown except for Wiggs, and we traded for him. It's not like we went out and got expensive free agents — well, not since KD and Igoudala, anyway.
[95.7] "I just can't see how they can let him walk...Let's say you lose him for nothing, it's not like you get a $30M slot to go sign a player...You're going to have to pay." - @BobbyMarks42 predicts Draymond will sign a 3-year, $100M contract to remain with GSW (via @WillardAndDibs )."
Sounds like a bit of a crazy overpay to me for his age 33-35 seasons (given guys like Naz Reid and Xavier Tillman are getting less than half that for their prime years). But whatevs, it’s not my money. If Steph demands it, get ‘er dun, Dun!
2nd lineup will beat first lineup only because Reid plays like an all-star against the Warriors. But 2nd lineup will lose to every other team in the league.
Curry guards Schroeder or d lol cp3 guards the other one or reeves. Naz Reid spreads AD out to the 3 point line, curry/cp3 Wiggins pick and roll wreaks havoc on any team.
I don't think we realize enough how crazy curry would look with a bigman that can shoot or be a bigger threat to score, it's not a coincidence the greatest season of all time 2016 is the last time Draymond green was taking and making 3s at a good clip
It's annoying now, but the CBA will probably make it much easier for the Warriors to recover from the hellscape, er possibly somewhat bleak post-Curry future (unless they change the agreement again).
"[Marks] As part of the new CBA, teams are required to spend 90% of the salary cap ($122.4M) by the first day of the regular season. Starting next year, team that do not spend 90% by the first day of the regular season will not receive a tax distribution."
There's been a salary floor (for a while? not sure how long), but before you had a while to get up to that amount (end of the regular season?). This way, it's like a summer Oprah marathon ("you get a contract!").
The Detroit Pistons plan to pick up Alec Burks' $10.5 million option for 2023-2024, sources tell ESPN. Burks averaged 12.8 points and 3.1 rebounds last season.
Would have rocketed to the top of my FA wishlist had he been available (6'6 ballhandler and shot creator who can shoot and has experience in the Warrior system), but Detroit should obviously just keep him and then trade him near the deadline for something.
I want to try an experiment.
I’d like to keep a google doc tracking the Warriors free agent targets, which we would update as the news of various signings is announced. This will not be quite as thrilling as the live Draft tracker, since the news rolled in quickly, but it seems worth a try.
If there are a couple of you who plan to be tracking free agency and are interested in volunteering to keep the doc up to date as news trickles in, please contact me at apricotan@gmail.com with your DNHQ user handle and I’ll pick a few of you as editors to collectively keep it updated.
What fields are you planning on having? Just name? Adding the contract and where the person signed would be interesting additions for future reference, I think. You can always get it from spotrac, but it would be convenient to have it all in one place.
If you have editors, then the additional workload shouldn't be high, I would think.
Yes I was thinking: new team, contract if known, maybe a link to a source
bueno.
Mark Titus on Chris Paul’s fit with Steph Curry on the Warriors & NBA Draft recap | Hoops Tonight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oBDcZMhGp0 (Warriors talk starts at 21:16, CP3 on the Warriors at 30:06).
Dario Saric is the obvious top free agency target to me (I'm assuming Love isn't going anywhere after that playoff run) to cover the "frontcourt shooting" role that the Warriors are currently lacking. Getting someone to fill that role is probably their biggest concern.
I think the Warriors also go for a ballhandler and I'd say my top three targets for that in no order are Justise Winslow, Dennis Smith Jr, and Ty Jerome (also would be interested in Lowry if he becomes available). Jerome as we know can shoot it and pass it and has a nice floater game and is well liked in the locker room. The fact that the Warriors "aren't expected to offer a QO" suggests to me he is not their first choice, but it sounds like he'd be an option for them. Winslow is 6'6 and a strong, versatile defender with a 2.3 A/TO ratio last season, obviously cannot shoot for shit and doesn't seem like he has great touch though. Smith is a 6'2 ballhandler who also cannot shoot for shit, but has nice burst and vertical athleticism for a roster that lacks rim pressure, had a 3.2 A/TO ratio with 4.8 APG last season, and most importantly was rated as one of the best defensive players in the league by some advanced metrics:
https://dunksandthrees.com/epm (sort by D-EPM and he's second in the NBA)
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/ (sort by D-RAPTOR and he's T-6th in the NBA)
Ideally I'd like the Warriors to use the remaining two slots to get another veteran wing and another center but I could see them keeping a roster spot open again. I think that'd be a mistake (unless TJD is "ready") but we'll see what they do.
I think other than a stretch big, the top target will be someone as close as possible to Jordan Poole. A scoring combo guard. Someone who can knock down open looks from CP3, but also generate a shot in a pinch. Someone who could play 30+ minutes when both Steph and CP3 are out and provide both the ball-handling and the scoring.
That's why I liked RJ hampton as a target.
Can we use a time machine to grab Podz a couple of years from now and bring him back to our time? He could be that guy by then.
Pickings seem slim for that, maybe Terence Davis?
Are Shake Milton or Jaylen Nowell both getting raises? Reggie Jackson maybe. Austin Rivers used to be this type of guy but he has turned into a very low usage guard.
You're right, it's very limited. At which point then I think they try to bring back Ty and then have a guy or two like this on a two way.
Hmmm I had not thought about Reggie but he is UFA and would probably be a vet min deal.
is Les one of those guys?
Yeah I bet they have Les on a two-way regardless. If they strike out on someone who's played in the league a bit he will have an opportunity to be that guy.
Even if they bring someone in on a one year I think he'll get some chances to be that guy. You never know. This is definitely a skillset where some guys pop from the G-League.
yeah. We need someone who can drive by their man.
I'd rather have Jerome's steady hand and competent shot back, but a GPII-DSJr. tag team (along with more minutes from JK and Wiggins) would definitely solve the problems we had with perimeter and point-of-attack defense last year.
we deffinitle need a third guard, we have pod now but i think ty did a great job last year filling the void with hustle, 3 point shooting and taking care of the ball...the same for lamb. Hope both come back this year for the minimum
No on #40
Yeah, my assumption is that Podziemski is an end of bench non-factor next season. Who is the last 20 year old, offensively-oriented smaller guard to come from a mid-major and produce in their rookie season? Landry Shamet maybe? It's a big jump in competition level. I'm sure it'll be blamed on Kerr if he doesn't play but I think it'll be pretty standard. But it'd certainly be nice if he breaks the mold and can contribute immediately.
I figured Podz will play in SC a lot. DSJr is interesting for vet min. Dennis Schröder also is UFA and was vet min this past season but he played well enough that I think he will get a better deal this summer.
Landry Shamet is out of the question. He just went to the Wiz in the Beal deal and has a guaranteed contract for this coming season at $10.25M.
I meant that Shamet is the last example I can think of of a 6'4 or under rookie from a mid-major school who produced as a rookie. Although I guess you can also add Bones Hyland in there, actually.
I would love Schroder and maybe he still has good feelings from playing with CP3 in OKC but I assume he's going back to the Lakers.
I was picking on baseball yesterday and the ensuing discussion led me to a bit of research and now I'm back to picking on it again. But it's an off-topic rant so I'll put it in the thread, and parties not interested don't have to read it ...
I'll chime in. A "Cricket Tragic" here. To take Asher's point about collective skillsets in a sport, cricket (baseballs cousin) has these things called Allrounders. Players that can both bowl (pitch) and bat (hit) above average. In cricket, everyone is in the batting lineup (11 players to a team). It is usually staggered from top order hitter (able to face the starting pitchers and brand new ball) to middle order (able to face second-fourth change bowlers with different styles) to tail enders (not very good hitters as they are the bowlers/pitchers themselves).
All rounders like Ohtani (elite in both disciplines, if I'm reading correct) are "rare" (maybe a handful throughout history) but the idea of a pitcher/batter is very common. In the 80's the sports headlines were dominated by 4 (FOUR!) all time great allrounders from India, New Zealand, England, and Pakistan.
Where it gets interesting and comes back to Asher's point is up until the 2000's, the main specialist position was a wicetkeeper (catcher) who also needed to bat, but wasn't really expected to do well. "You are a specialist catcher so focus on that and don't waste too much time on your batting skills because we have 6 main batters to score our runs". A catcher was seen as a "traditional" position which had it's own conservative culture.
Enter Adam Gilchrist. A player who was an elite hitter and who could also do an above average job as catcher. Now his team had the unfair advantage of potentially playing another pitcher or allrounder and it wouldn't affect their ability to score runs as much. This revolutionized the catcher position and within a few years, you would not be selected as a catcher in a team if you cannot be an average or better hitter (or a catching/allrounder) , even if for decades you had to know how to bat, just not expected to do it that well.
TLDR: Ohtani would be a great allrounder cricketer but certainly not the only one. A stuffy specialist position was revolutionized when one player proved you could combine two sport-specific skillsets really well.
That's super interesting! Dunno much about cricket outside of stuff I heard about growing up with an Aussie friend, so this development wants something I learned. Baseball sorta had that realization as well with analytics driven player dev. Although defensive specialists are still common, most top-line catchers and SS aren't complete zeros with the bat anymore, either.
Thanks CK. Fun fact, the first international game of cricket was played between The United States and Canada in 1844! I do love the fact cricket was spread around the Colonies and so each colony developed their own style/brand of cricket based on population and geographical factors. I could argue cricket is the more skilled (but hey, I played it, come at me bro :P) but think there is certainly some appeal and appreciation that can cross over the sports. I have slowly started following more baseball. Would be interesting to hear if anyone who has gone the other way and why...
Oh wow! I knew it was part of the British colonial export, but I sorta assumed the first international game would've been england vs. France or something. Makes sense that two neighboring anglo countries did it first though.
I'm an apple pie gal myself, so not me lol, but yeah it'd be interesting to hear! I did enjoy watching it with my friend, and can getting into it if I didn't already have a stick-ball sport I follow. I'll defer to someone who's watched both on which game is more skill-oriented ;)
Asher,
now that you've taken on baseball, how do you feel about apple pie? :)
You're implying that I'm done with baseball as a topic. I'm just getting started. When I'm done with baseball, you'll know it.
But send apple pie.
:)
Interesting discussion, BTW. I kind of lost interest in baseball in the early 2000s. Other than being mildly interested in seeing if the Padres ever pull their heads out of their asses in my lifetime, I can't say I've had much reason to watch a game.
I do understand that sports and fandom don't actually make sense. But: it seems like only in baseball would Shohei Ohtani's performance draw such astonished gasps. He *puts on a uniform and gets 4-5 at-bats on days when he's not pitching!!!!!!* WHAT A PHENOMENAL EXERTION!!!!
I get that pitching and hitting are hard to do well. And I get that if you pitch starter innings, your arm will be too tired to pitch for a few days. But why can't you HIT on off days? This is like saying that on his days off Steph Curry doesn't just rest, he actually golfs -- oh wait, that's true.
And the expectation that a guy can't pitch and hit makes no sense in the first place. That's like saying "He can dribble at elite levels AND HE CAN ALSO SHOOT THE THREE!!!! How????"
Baseball is, I submit, a wimp sport. A lot of standing around. I know, I've played.
Jakob Ingebrigtsen, distance runner, works out seven days a week. Three of those days he runs a 10K in the morning and another one in the afternoon. Those are the easy days.
Agreed - follow cricket instead - and did you know that the US is trying to reach the world cup - though highly unlikely
https://www.espncricinfo.com/team/united-states-of-america-11
😁
I've also wondered the same... what about hitting and pitching makes those two skills nearly mutually exclusive (at least at the elite level)?
In other sports, mutually exclusive skills also exist but often there's a physical explanation. For example, the intersection between kickers, punt returners, and offensive linemen doesn't exist (afaik), and in basketball 6'3" paint protectors don't exist.
You could argue that goalkeepers in hockey and futbol can't really play other positions either but they're also restricted by the rules of the game... you can't just switch from being a goalkeeper to other positions in the middle of play... so there is no incentive added for being able to play other positions.
In baseball, being able to play both sides would seem like a set of skills that would lead to more $$$... so why aren't more players able to do it?
My argument is that the baseball players are able to do it, if encouraged through their early years. The problem, I think, is that baseball is the most conservative sport around. It revels on its own conservatism. If you’re a great high school pitcher AND hitter, the scouts the agents the ball clubs will all tell you that you have to pick one thing.
No they don't. What actually happens is that they start doing significantly better at one than the other as they go through the minors, and end up sticking with what they are better at. There's a history of this, long and documented. Right now, for instance, there's Reggie Crawford in our very own Giants minor league system.
Do you think maybe the lack of salary cap has some influence? Like if a pitcher can bat NNN, but the team can afford to pay $5M for somebody who can bat NNN+X, why wouldn't they do it?
The cap isn't a cap, it's just a taxing scheme. Thankfully, MLB hasn't been able to get an actual spending cap into the CBA in any meaningful way
I don't, personally, but I don't know the finances of baseball well. My own bet guess is that baseball is just conservative and prevents young players from doing both because you Just Can't Do That in The Majors.
"and in basketball 6'3" paint protectors don't exist." - GP2 has words
You need to understand just how singular what he is doing is. No one has ever come close to being able to do it. Striking out 10 as a pitcher and hitting two homers as a hitter in the same game might have been a thing that was possible (Bumgarner did something similar once I think), but Ohtani is among the league leaders in both pitching and hitting and specifically home runs and strikeouts. That is earth-shattering to baseball fans.
You're making *my* point, in my view.
I AGREE that it is singular and earth-shattering. That's my point, it's an exception.
But WHY is it that? Because he is a mutant from outer space?
I submit that no, he is not a mutant, he is actually extraordinary at wo baseball skills, but so a lot of other players could be.
My beef is not with the player, it's with WITH THE LACK OF IMAGINATION IN THE SPORT. . When Kuminga hits a few threes, Kerr says "ADD SOME REBOUNDING" because he *expects* multi-skill play. Expects it.
I will bet that if players over the past decades had been encouraged to pitch and hit, we would have seen hundreds of players do both at elite levels. And I will predict that in the next decades we will see an Ohtani effect and all of a sudden everyone will say oh wait, you can do both.
Some reading from a good source:
https://www.baseballprospectus.com/prospects/article/68391/bp-on-draft-what-makes-true-two-way-prospects-so-rare/
And a discussion:
https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/ojxd87/why_is_shohei_ohtani_the_first_twoway_player_in_a/
Teams have been trying to raise two-way stars for ages. It just isn't a thing that is typically possible. Many hitters have great arms, but whether it's something about focus, or body mechanics, or something else, nothing ever comes of it. I know you want to see this as some kind of crazy market inefficiency, but people have never thought something like this (and by this, I mean someone leading the league in both power hitting and power pitching and providing elite value at both) possible BECAUSE whenever it's been tried, it hasn't worked.
I sorta thing Asher has a point regarding institutional inertia/ conservative thinking. Like, yeah everyone who's been around a baseball for more than a second knows a pitcher who can hit opens up a lot more roster flexibility. The trouble is that pitchers break, so the better a pitcher can hit, the more opportunity cost you'd pay if they get hurt pitching. The traditional calculus has usually been to choose one and focus on it. However, the closest we've come to an Ohtani situation was Babe Ruth, and let's just say 1918 isn't a really useful comp for 2023. Maybe Ohtani's success will yield more effort in building out the necessary knowledge and organizational capacity for more Ohtani's? Orgs now have an actual data point to base their internal metrics on what this opens up.
Like, how different is training pitchers to hit compared to how orgs now treat fielding positions? 2002, you were either a SS, 2B or 3B and only switched when the team acquired a player at the same position or you really sucked at one of those. Now? Infields are basically just a collection of defensive talent, with a slight limit at SS and C because of their uniquely important roles.
Idk, I could be misreading it, but behind Asher's more provocative tone I think they're hitting at something interesting
Personally I find it very disrespectful to Ohtani to suggest that there should be plenty more like him and the reason there aren't is a lack of creativity. The MLB put Jim Abbott on the mound, where he flourished at one point. Did you ever see his amazing way of switching the mitt onto his pitching hand? For a more local example, look at the delivery of Tyler Rogers. Baseball is creative and finds ways to fix problems. Simply put, there isn't a problem of a whole bunch of ace hitters who would also be ace pitchers if they were just challenged appropriately to flex that muscle.
I'll be a resident baseball mostly-fan: hitting a baseball coming at you above 95 with the movement even mediocre pitchers have now is probably the hardest sports skill to have. Like, it's really really hard lol. So Ohtani doing both well is about as impressive to me as if Wembanyama had Curry's range; sure it's just shooting a basketball, but the skill that you're demonstrating is crazy impressive.
That he has enough batting prowess to be a really solid DH is insane, it's not that people are agag over him playing more than once a week I think.
I agree that hitting a baseball in play is hard. That's why doing it 30% of the time is a huge success. No argument.
But throwing and hitting the ball are fundamental baseball skills. It really shouldn't be so surprising for someone to be elite at both.
Chess champ Magnus Carlsen casually plays soccer. If he were world class at soccer, *that* would be pretty impressive, because it's so hard to be either one, and the skills don't overlap.
But a kid learning to play baseball hits and throws it constantly. Practice after practice from an early age, they are doing both things. Every single workout. Some of them are bound to be good at both.
And it actually works out that way in lower leagues. In every Little League, some kid is the star pitcher and hitter. Happens all the time in high school, too.
These are grouped skills. I'm not disputing that they are hard to do well, I'm saying that they overlap.
Citing Wembanyama hurt your case. He already can dunk and block shots and shoot the three, all at world class levels. Everyone in the NBA (except DeAndre Jordan) has multiple skills at elite levels.
Some gymnasts specialize in balance beam, some in floor exercises, but so many can do all the stuff. That's athleticism.
I'm not knocking Ohtani, I'm knocking all the other players who don't do this.
Because baseball is the ultimate sport for telling you a singular talent isn't enough. The rest of the team minus another HOFer in Mike Trout drinks soup with a fork
I'm also a lifelong baseball fan and played it a lot, and I'm a member of the Society for American Baseball Research (SABR). Asher, I am amazed that someone who played the game would not recognize how rare Otani's talents are. He is not just a pitcher, he is one of the best pitchers in MLB. He is not just a hitter, he is leading the AL in home runs right now and hitting .304. There have been other players who switched from pitching to being a position player, like Lefty O'Doul, Bob Lemon, and Smokey Joe Wood, but in the past 130 years, only Babe Ruth's accomplishments doing both compare to Otani. He's absolutely killing it.
Right, we *agree* that it's rare. But I'm saying there's no particular reason it has to be rare. It's not rare at lower levels like Little League and high school.
I understand he's performing at elite levels in two skills. So is every basketball player you know of except DeAndre Jordan, every gymnast, etc. Decathletes look at this nonsense and laugh like this "ha ha ah ha hah."
It's not rare. It's SINGULAR. And your comparison with basketball is ignorant. I know you are not ignorant, but this insistence on these things being comparable is ridiculous. No one is "laughing" at Ohtani's greatness.
And Ruth basically switched from a pitcher who can hit to Babe Ruth. Iirc he was known to have a pretty good bat, but he perfected his craft after pitching, right?
Before 1918, Ruth was entirely a pitcher except for some pinch hitting. He was already a fine hitter but with limited plate appearances. That was the Deadball Era, with some very large fields, so HRs were relatively rare and often inside the park HRs. For instance in 1915, his first full season in the majors, Ruth hit .315 with 4 HRs but that was in 92 ABs. For perspective the AL average HRs per team that year was 20 for an entire team. So he was already probably the best slugger around in limited ABs. While with the Red Sox, he was considered arguably the best left-handed pitcher in the league.
During his final two years in Boston, Ruth was in transition, still pitching but not as much, and playing a lot of outfield, and he was already the best slugger in baseball. In 1918, he was 13-7 with a 2.22 ERA and also hit .300 and led the majors in HRs with 11. The next year, 1919, was his breakout year as a slugger; he hit .322 with 29 HRs to lead the majors. That is more HRs than four entire AL teams and six NL teams had that year. Nobody will ever do THAT again! He also was 9-5 with a 2.97 ERA. He was sold to the Yankees after that year and only rarely pitched after that.
Otani is playing a lot as both an outfielder and a pitcher at the same time to an even greater extent than Ruth did. Ruth was more dominant compared to the rest of baseball in his day than any player has ever been.
Babe Ruth was the Steph Curry of baseball.
Right. Why can't *any pitcher in 100 years* do that also? Babe Ruth was not from some other planet. This is a cultural issue, to my mind. Nobody even let Dave Winfield try. They were like you're a hitter, hit. The sport has limited imagination, is my point.
After some thought, I think I agree with the sense you're putting out, but maybe not the wording? The sport knew you could do it, but the reason for more specialized skills (beyond how hard it really is to do both jobs well) is that the best hitters stick around longer than the best pitchers. Pitchers are both the most individually valuable talent on a team and the most likely to break/ lost it randomly. They also have different needs for training/ dev in the minors than hitters. So it made sense that, all else being equal, a pitcher will put less time into hitting and star hitters will be shielded from pitching. You also see that with other positions, like most of the time (now) a good hitting catcher will spot start other positions to relieve them of the catching grind.
I do think baseball FOs knew you could conceivably pitch and hit given they see it constantly in prospects at all non US pro baseball. The reason they didn't bite (in my story, at least) has as much to do with small-c conservative tendencies in baseball. That said, maybe this is analogous to Steph highlighting a strategy that sounded good in theory but rarely was tried...
No Asher, Ruth WAS from another planet. He was one of the greatest natural athletes of the 20th century. He could have been a superstar in other sports but baseball and boxing were THE professional sports back then in the USA (unless you include horse racing). He was built like Hercules in those days, not at all the fat guy most people think of; that happened only late in his career. He could run, too. The closest basketball equivalent might be Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell, guys who were track and field stars as well as basketball superstars.
For all the folks who care about effectiveness:
Curry’s net rating was significantly better when paired with Looney than Draymond last year in both the regular season and in the playoffs.
Klay was a plus with all the starters and great with Moody but terrible with Poole.
Moral of the story: don’t over pay Dray at the expense of the team and Looney. Do keep Klay if possible.
why is so important to overpay or not for draymond? is not our money. The guy totally is worth between 25-33 millons dollars, and im not the one saying it, teams in the nba value him that much
As Sab posted above, if you stay over the second apron, your pick moves to the end of the round.
So, if we just throw money at players, we're probably looking at drafting in the high 20s for the forseeable future. That will eventually gut the team ... no assets to trade, no good players coming in.
I think the clock for exceeding the second apron twice in four years starts at the end of the upcoming season, so Draymond's salary for the next year should have no impact. I'd expect a contract structure where salary decreases from year 1 to years 2 and 3. Then Klay comes off his mega contract after this upcoming season.
That's interesting. And if one of Klay or Dray were to leave, I'd prefer it were Klay. Thanks.
The new cba restrictions
so asume draymond is worth 25 mill and we pay him 33...thats 8 mill dif.. a lot of money in taxes, but if lacob wants to pay it, be my guess
We will be in the restrictions for a long long time, it makes no diference
Dray+Klay+TPE need to add up to under the second apron next year. Those 8 million Dray gets could impact being able to keep Klay or sign a TPE player. I too care not about the tax bill. But I do care about retaining Klay and being able to get the best possible TPE use when losing JP/CP.
Of course Dray might be trying to get enough $ to ensure the Dubs can’t get out of the repeater tax by moving off of CP and Klay for vet mins/2nd round salary slots.
Klay wont make 40 again...and i prefer dray over a TPE player. Moody and kuminga extensiones comes the year after. Next year we will be under de cba tax of 179
Was thinking on some stretch big options other than Saric, Kevin Love, Mo Wagner or maybe more guys like Olynyk get waived. Or bringing back Jamychal. It's just not a deep pool so here's some other potential guys if they don't work out.
Christian Wood - Arguably more talented than any of these guys above. I wonder if there's the small chance his market just gets squeezed. Where rebuilding teams don't want him around the young players and contending teams don't want to use an exception on a guy that Kidd gave up on. Small small chance, but non-zero.
Thomas Bryant - A little similar to above, but I do wonder if they could pitch hard on a role for him. Like you will come in and get a ton of shots on the 2nd unit. Let it fly like Mo Speights.
Boogie Cousins - The really available but huge question mark. I think there's a bit of a parallel to him and when the Warriors revived Javale McGee in the way the league had totally given up on a talented big man who wasn't all that old. Could a bit of humbling and some wisdom of age be enough
Jay Huf - Maybe more of a two way guy. Was the G-League defensive player of the year. Made 40% of his 3's on limited volume. But in his late season limited minutes stint he got up about 5 per 36 and made half. (This is 95 total minutes and 12 total shots for context. it's really limited).
We don't get to sign people from the buyout market because of the second apron. I think but am not sure that starts this year. Someone who knows more about it please correct me if I am mistaken.
Yeah - you're right. I changed it to waived. Olynyk has a partially guaranteed deal so he could just get waived and the Warriors could sign him.
Found out that per the new CBA, we don't get to sign people from the buyout market because we are over the FIRST apron, not the second one. Oboy.
Christian Wood is an enigma. His offensive stats were good last season (26 mins/game, 16.6 points, 51.5% FG, 37.6% threes, 7.3 rebounds, 1.8 assists), but the Mavs failed to finish above .500. Is it because his game lacks consistency? Or is it his defense?
Thomas Bryant offensive stats look solid, but Lakers fans said that his defense was horrible, which was the reason why they got rid of him.
Defense is weak on both. I think that's one thing, but there's some immaturity and selfishness on both too. Like they're black holes, so they're not executing the plan.
I think the pitch to them would be "Try your best on D and CP3 will feed you a bunch of good looks on O. Knock em down."
Bryant is one of the worst big man defenders in the NBA according to fans of his previous teams.
Denver trading multiple second round picks for Bryant and then sticking him at the end of the bench after like 5 games is certainly a caution flag
bryant and wood are similars...skilled bigs that can shoot...but that are a black hole on defense
Per Slater, no QOs to Lamb or Ty Jerome, so both become UFA. They could still be brought back as fallback options in case nothing better materializes. Quinones likely back as a 2-way unless he gets a spot on the 15 for another team. Link also includes a list of possible FA targets for roster spots 12-14.
https://old.reddit.com/r/warriors/comments/14laywz/slater_my_sense_of_gsws_desire_entering_fa_to/
Whole lotta names there that I doubt will be vet mins.
One of his options is Austin Rivers, now that would be the DNHQ dream off-season, adding him and CP3. Too bad the beard is too expensive.
I wondered about AR sucks. And shuddered.
Sounds like they already have someone lined up for the third ballhandler then? Otherwise that seems dumb as hell to not extend a QO to Jerome.
Yeah, do not understand that move. He seems ideal for that role.
Nah, he was available at the last minute last offseason, they're gonna try to bring him back on another 2-way.
He's not eligible for a two-way. And if they were planning on bringing him back as a first priority, I'm not seeing the benefit of rescinding his QO and letting him become unrestricted.
Return of Nedovic
I am trying to be more grown up and zen every day. Personal growth is hard. At 69 harder still. I realize that Dray is a key. That he and Steph are the only players they cannot afford to lose under real time clear rational analysis. Klay. Loon. Wiggins. Donte. GP2 are all key. But others do what they do. Not with the same personality or vibe. But they could be replaced. Truth be told from a purely basketball standpoint GP2 might be the 3rd unreplaceable one. The salary cap is a bad concept. The luxury cap is worse. I believe in the free market, even in the age of Bezos and Musk and Zuckerberg and other evil rich people. But the salary cap and the CBA requires that you be non-sentimental in the harsh light of a non championship off season when you look at your roster. I would like nothing better than for Steph and Klay and Dray to stay together their entire career. Does Dray want that or a stupid amount of money? The starting five is still the most efficient in the league. Why would you ever break that up? The Lakers switched everything, forced the Warriors out of their sets, sat Davis in front of the basket and wore down Steph in pick and roll. To combat that scenario CP makes sense. Play Dray and Wiggs to start. With CP and Steph at guard. Klay and Wiggs at wings. Dray at 5. Spread the floor. Run the motion sets. Run pick and roll early in clock or late. Let Dray be the roll guy with CP. Let Wiggs be the flasher from the weak side. I thought they didn't always have enough shooters on the floor against Sacto and LA. Going smaller with Klay on the wing creates more mismatches. More wing jumpers. More catch and shoot three's. I am starting to think that CP is an upgrade because he makes pick and roll possible and because he stabilizes the second unit. They have to re-sign Dray. I tire of his antics, his insecurity, his mouth, but not his play. I assume he feels loyalty to Steve Kerr, to Steph, to Klay and to the franchise. But you never really know for sure. The Warriors may have to reinvent themselves. Not always the worst thing. Winning is much fun. But truthfully building a winner is even more fun. If Dray leaves they have to do it all differently. Be interesting to see what they can come up with. Be less noise and nonsense in the lab for sure
Playoffs net ratings:
Curry-Looney 275 minutes: +10.9 net rtg
Curry-Grren 317 minutes: 0.0 net rtg
Regular season
Curry-Looney 1068 minutes: +11.4 Net Rtg
Curry-Green 1442 minutes: +8.6 net rtg
Draymond’s a good fit for the team but not worth overpaying. Looney deserves more playoff minutes.
Wow, that zero net rtg is disconcerting.
I imagine Looney's minutes are limited to prevent recurrence of his hip issues but I may be wrong. He rarely plays a lot of minutes even when Draymond has been injured.
Kerr has a habit of benching his biggest players when he gets stressed ever since he blew the 73 win season with Ezili and Varejão.
He needs to trust Looney more in the playoffs when the chips are down.
Free markets are fine, but there is no real good reason for not increasing taxes on people that become fabulously wealthy due to government protected patent and copyright monopolies. There is also no really good reason why Joe Lacob's tax rate should be 1/2 of Steph Curry's tax rate (if that).
I don't "believe in the free market," and I don't agree that "free markets are fine." They're killing us all. I know that's not the topic of this site but it popped up in this thread so I thought I'd mention.
You have to kill off monopolies for a free market to function, and right now we have monopolies using govt legislation to enhance their monopolistic powers in the US. We have the worst of all worlds for consumers here.
At least Europe is still fighting the good fight on the big tech front.
I didn't want to get into externalities and not being able to choose your parents, or what medical problems you might have. In the context of the NBA, I do think a freer market with fewer payroll restrictions would be better for the players and for the fans.
For the fans? That depends on how it affects ticket prices.
Conventional economic theory says it wouldn't affect ticket prices at all. Ticket prices are (in theory) set to maximize profit. The revenue split between owners and players doesn't change that.
Fanspo All In to Win (Character not required) Under 2nd Apron Lala-Palooza (178.5 mil)
CP3, Curry, Wiggins, Dray, Looney
Pat Bev, Grayson Allen, Dillon Brooks, GP2, Meyers Leonard
Ben Simmons, bPod, Anthony Lamb, Andre (just 'cuz) or Dwight Howard (he's a champion)
Works on Fanspo.
So many rosters, so little time. I know this team might seem a little toxic at first glance, but you won't get a hit sitting on a pitch. It may not be All In on winning, but it sure is All In on something. ;-)
I guess Genghis Khan is retired or you would have put him on there too
Hey, DNHQ has Attila the Hun, so if Alas wants to add Genghis, who are we to say no? 😂
I quit when I saw Grayson, I threw up when I saw Brooks. Gross
That was the point! lol
Milwaukee Bucks guard Jevon Carter will decline his $2.24 million player option for the 2023-24 season and become an unrestricted free agent, a league source told @hoopshype. Carter, a strong defender, shot 42.1 percent from 3-point range in 81 regular-season games played.
https://twitter.com/mikeascotto/status/1673896824556462080
Do we have the MLE this season, but not next season?
Dunleavy said all we have is vet mins.
So that means most of the good and expensive free agents will be taken and the Warriors will be left with scraps.
Curry, Thompson, Wiggins, Green (maybe) Looney, CP3, GP2, Moody, KUMINGA, Podz, TDJ and then scraps. A pretty solid 8-9 man rotation. Add a few journeymen, a few two-way contracts and its all good.
That's the point of the second apron restrictions. The league wants to prevent wealthier teams from being able to significantly outspend other teams, and we're the poster child for that. It would make sense except for the fact that the core of our team is home-grown except for Wiggs, and we traded for him. It's not like we went out and got expensive free agents — well, not since KD and Igoudala, anyway.
Yeah, no MLE this offseason.
"Evan Sidery @esidery
Three players from the 2020 draft class are expected to sign rookie-scale max extensions once free agency begins:
Anthony Edwards
LaMelo Ball
Tyrese Haliburton"
Ant, Towns, and Gobert in 2024 will be paid the same as Curry, Klay, and Dray are now.
Holy moly did the Wolves mess up
But gee, Ant, Towns, and Gobert together have... oh yeah... no rings. 🤣
Only rings they have are the rings around the collars of the coaching staff.
Talen Horton-Tucker is opting into his $11 million deal with the Utah Jazz for next season, agent Rich Paul says
https://twitter.com/WindhorstESPN/status/1673882019590184961
[95.7] "I just can't see how they can let him walk...Let's say you lose him for nothing, it's not like you get a $30M slot to go sign a player...You're going to have to pay." - @BobbyMarks42 predicts Draymond will sign a 3-year, $100M contract to remain with GSW (via @WillardAndDibs )."
3/100 would be just fine.
It's an overpay, but as long as it lines up with Curry's contract then whatever for me.
The complex one might be Klay's new contract.
Sounds like a bit of a crazy overpay to me for his age 33-35 seasons (given guys like Naz Reid and Xavier Tillman are getting less than half that for their prime years). But whatevs, it’s not my money. If Steph demands it, get ‘er dun, Dun!
Curry cp3 klay Wiggins green vrs
Curry cp3 klay Wiggins naz Reid
Who wins
2nd lineup will beat first lineup only because Reid plays like an all-star against the Warriors. But 2nd lineup will lose to every other team in the league.
Idk why you think that. Curry cp3 klay Wiggins naz Reid wins the title last year easily
I think they’d
need to see if the Curry-CP3 combo can defend enough before playing it a ton of minutes, let alone presenting a presumptive trophy.
Curry guards Schroeder or d lol cp3 guards the other one or reeves. Naz Reid spreads AD out to the 3 point line, curry/cp3 Wiggins pick and roll wreaks havoc on any team.
I don't think we realize enough how crazy curry would look with a bigman that can shoot or be a bigger threat to score, it's not a coincidence the greatest season of all time 2016 is the last time Draymond green was taking and making 3s at a good clip
It's annoying now, but the CBA will probably make it much easier for the Warriors to recover from the hellscape, er possibly somewhat bleak post-Curry future (unless they change the agreement again).
Hopefully the next CBA will have "homegrown star" exceptions in time for us to pay Podz and TJD supermax contracts
"[Marks] As part of the new CBA, teams are required to spend 90% of the salary cap ($122.4M) by the first day of the regular season. Starting next year, team that do not spend 90% by the first day of the regular season will not receive a tax distribution."
https://media.tenor.com/R0d3sZ4fq6EAAAAC/money-dollars.gif
This is actually probably great for the players. So the players didn't completely cave to ownership as it first seemed.
So I guess teams are not allowed to spend too much or too little.
There's been a salary floor (for a while? not sure how long), but before you had a while to get up to that amount (end of the regular season?). This way, it's like a summer Oprah marathon ("you get a contract!").
The Detroit Pistons plan to pick up Alec Burks' $10.5 million option for 2023-2024, sources tell ESPN. Burks averaged 12.8 points and 3.1 rebounds last season.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1673846533689692161
Would have rocketed to the top of my FA wishlist had he been available (6'6 ballhandler and shot creator who can shoot and has experience in the Warrior system), but Detroit should obviously just keep him and then trade him near the deadline for something.
Maybe next summer.