Wiseman is high risk, high reward. My biggest concern is how well his body will hold up. If it doesn't work out, no regrets. Seeing that talent was amazing, and it was worth a shot. Unless it was because the W's failed to train Wiseman right, in which case we will need to get out the pitchforks and torches.
Important update: The Warriors signed Dejan Milojević for player development . . . he helped develop Jokic back in the day. I guess we know what type of player they want Wiseman to develop into :)
Would you rather have mikal bridges or DeAndre ayton? Give me a wing or a center any day of the week. We all know it takes centers longer to develop, who's to say Wiseman doesn't become injury prone by the time he's fully developed into his potential? It's too much risk to reward to go big on Cs imo
So, if Wiseman is the Tony Parker in our scenario here, who could the Jason Kidd be? First guy that comes to mind is KAT. But open to hearing other opinions.
Jun 15, 2021Liked by punk basketball, Daniel Hardee
Great article thanks DH. So much to like with JW.
I don’t see this situation as an ‘either/or’. The FO has already stated they are looking for a vet stretch 5. Assuming we achieve a quality signing in the off season we can enjoy watching JW develop off the bench without the pressure to deliver in the starting unit or crunch time.
I still see us as contenders in this situation, we were a whole lot closer to being a quality team at the end of the season.
Preaching to the Choir. Let's give the kid some room. I can't remember a rookie come in with such high expectations on a team with such high expectations and have so many things just go wrong. And yes, there were plenty of times where James couldn't find his own feet on the court. But he wasn't the only guy on the court who was lost. Oubre was playing bumper cars with Curry, Wanamaker was still looking for Tatum and Brown, Lee-Baze-Mulder were playing rock-paper sizzors for minutes and Poole was being miscast. It's a team game and Wiseman's difficulties were compounded by a team that looked like it was constructed on Match.com over a weekend in Vegas. But watching the in game highlights and lowlights of a rookie season isn't how one ascertains the value of a player. Because if you did, Poole would have been cut the prior year.
Unlike the couch bound fan, the FO saw Poole everyday. After McCaw & Evans, FO wanted a shooter without a conscience, enter Poole. And as bad as he was his rookie season on the court, the FO saw him in practice everyday, they saw what kind of person he was, the way he conducted himself, the way he worked, and they invested in him because of what these things all added up to. That judgement is now paying off.
Same goes for Wiseman, except this guy doesn't have a 6th Man of the Year ceiling like Poole, he has an All NBA DPOY HOF ceiling. It's not going to happen tomorrow. But he has the physical gifts, the desire, the willingness to learn and high character that can pay the Warriors incredible dividends for the next decade or more. He's the type of guy you could see, like Curry and hopefully Klay and Green, being a lifelong Warrior. I mean, c'mon, his nickname is J-Dub!
I seriously don't get the 'trade him' narrative. To see him on the court and not be able to project out 1-2-3-4 years and recognize the impact he can have on the court and for the organization seems a tragedy. Probably the same people who thought we should trade Curry because he was injury prone, Klay because he couldn't make a layup and Green because he lost his temper all the time. Sad. So so sad. ;-)
Quite frankly, I don't really care about his offense or defense. His offense has enough flash to quickly become something worthwhile and defense will come with time if he puts the work in. What is more than concerning his his rebounding. If he is to play winning basketball for our win-now team, he must get his TRB% over 20. We cannot have someone learn on the job *and* have awful rebounding. If we use possessions for Wiseman to gather experience, we cannot give the opponent additional possessions. That, to me, honestly determines whether my stance on a Wiseman trade is "Trade him if a good package reveals itself" and "Trade him ASAP while he still has *some* value left". All in all, for all his potential, I am very low on Wiseman and find the idea of caring about his development over winning now with Curry and Green to be offensive and ridiculous.
I'm not worried about losing a future where Wiseman is making a max contract and he's supposed to be the first or 2nd best player on the team. Gimme the salary slot.
I'd rather just have a good player now.
Bynum's a great example. He wasn't a major piece of a championship team. He played less than 20 MPG, and averaged like 8 points and 6 rebounds in the playoffs of those runs. Maybe the Lakers win an extra title if they have Jason Kidd instead.
It's hard to say with so little we know about him but his development is going to be really slow at this point with near 2 years of down time and I hope I'm wrong but I still get Anthony Randolph vibes from him.
Jun 14, 2021Liked by punk basketball, Daniel Hardee, Nate P
We're all bringing our biases in here, especially with the "we gotta trade Wiseman" and "we can't trade Wiseman" suggestions. I think we'd all be happy to trade Wiseman as the center piece of a trade that gets us a superstar that fits well (e.g. Wiggins + Wiseman for Giannis or Kawhi), but that's a pipe dream without additional assets, it's also not going to be a wild overpay for a poorly fitting superstar Dray + Wiseman + Poole + Minny pick + our pick + 3 pick swaps for Beal. The actual trades available will likely be harder choices somewhere in the middle...
Personally, I think Wiseman is undervalued as an asset on the trade market due to his raw-ness and having been injured.
Wiseman’s effectiveness with the ball in his hands on the break seemed to be: a couple baskets early in the season, zero passes, a ton of eurostep charges once players figured out he used those massive eurosteps to end up on exactly the same line he started out upon. A few passes on the break might allow him to shift the D enough to get to the rim on the rest.
Wiseman is high risk, high reward. My biggest concern is how well his body will hold up. If it doesn't work out, no regrets. Seeing that talent was amazing, and it was worth a shot. Unless it was because the W's failed to train Wiseman right, in which case we will need to get out the pitchforks and torches.
🚨 CHOKE ALERT 🚨 Bucks have blown a 17 point lead
Important update: The Warriors signed Dejan Milojević for player development . . . he helped develop Jokic back in the day. I guess we know what type of player they want Wiseman to develop into :)
BKN getting crushed by hardens bricks and excellent Bucks rim protection.
Would you rather have mikal bridges or DeAndre ayton? Give me a wing or a center any day of the week. We all know it takes centers longer to develop, who's to say Wiseman doesn't become injury prone by the time he's fully developed into his potential? It's too much risk to reward to go big on Cs imo
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/nba-rumors-warriors-hire-nikola-jokics-former-serbian-coach
So, if Wiseman is the Tony Parker in our scenario here, who could the Jason Kidd be? First guy that comes to mind is KAT. But open to hearing other opinions.
Great article thanks DH. So much to like with JW.
I don’t see this situation as an ‘either/or’. The FO has already stated they are looking for a vet stretch 5. Assuming we achieve a quality signing in the off season we can enjoy watching JW develop off the bench without the pressure to deliver in the starting unit or crunch time.
I still see us as contenders in this situation, we were a whole lot closer to being a quality team at the end of the season.
Preaching to the Choir. Let's give the kid some room. I can't remember a rookie come in with such high expectations on a team with such high expectations and have so many things just go wrong. And yes, there were plenty of times where James couldn't find his own feet on the court. But he wasn't the only guy on the court who was lost. Oubre was playing bumper cars with Curry, Wanamaker was still looking for Tatum and Brown, Lee-Baze-Mulder were playing rock-paper sizzors for minutes and Poole was being miscast. It's a team game and Wiseman's difficulties were compounded by a team that looked like it was constructed on Match.com over a weekend in Vegas. But watching the in game highlights and lowlights of a rookie season isn't how one ascertains the value of a player. Because if you did, Poole would have been cut the prior year.
Unlike the couch bound fan, the FO saw Poole everyday. After McCaw & Evans, FO wanted a shooter without a conscience, enter Poole. And as bad as he was his rookie season on the court, the FO saw him in practice everyday, they saw what kind of person he was, the way he conducted himself, the way he worked, and they invested in him because of what these things all added up to. That judgement is now paying off.
Same goes for Wiseman, except this guy doesn't have a 6th Man of the Year ceiling like Poole, he has an All NBA DPOY HOF ceiling. It's not going to happen tomorrow. But he has the physical gifts, the desire, the willingness to learn and high character that can pay the Warriors incredible dividends for the next decade or more. He's the type of guy you could see, like Curry and hopefully Klay and Green, being a lifelong Warrior. I mean, c'mon, his nickname is J-Dub!
I seriously don't get the 'trade him' narrative. To see him on the court and not be able to project out 1-2-3-4 years and recognize the impact he can have on the court and for the organization seems a tragedy. Probably the same people who thought we should trade Curry because he was injury prone, Klay because he couldn't make a layup and Green because he lost his temper all the time. Sad. So so sad. ;-)
Quite frankly, I don't really care about his offense or defense. His offense has enough flash to quickly become something worthwhile and defense will come with time if he puts the work in. What is more than concerning his his rebounding. If he is to play winning basketball for our win-now team, he must get his TRB% over 20. We cannot have someone learn on the job *and* have awful rebounding. If we use possessions for Wiseman to gather experience, we cannot give the opponent additional possessions. That, to me, honestly determines whether my stance on a Wiseman trade is "Trade him if a good package reveals itself" and "Trade him ASAP while he still has *some* value left". All in all, for all his potential, I am very low on Wiseman and find the idea of caring about his development over winning now with Curry and Green to be offensive and ridiculous.
https://www.nba.com/news/nba-announces-2020-21-all-defensive-first-and-second-teams
1 total point for Wiggins on all defensive teams...that's bogus. Kawhi got in purely off of reputation.
I'm not worried about losing a future where Wiseman is making a max contract and he's supposed to be the first or 2nd best player on the team. Gimme the salary slot.
I'd rather just have a good player now.
Bynum's a great example. He wasn't a major piece of a championship team. He played less than 20 MPG, and averaged like 8 points and 6 rebounds in the playoffs of those runs. Maybe the Lakers win an extra title if they have Jason Kidd instead.
It's hard to say with so little we know about him but his development is going to be really slow at this point with near 2 years of down time and I hope I'm wrong but I still get Anthony Randolph vibes from him.
We're all bringing our biases in here, especially with the "we gotta trade Wiseman" and "we can't trade Wiseman" suggestions. I think we'd all be happy to trade Wiseman as the center piece of a trade that gets us a superstar that fits well (e.g. Wiggins + Wiseman for Giannis or Kawhi), but that's a pipe dream without additional assets, it's also not going to be a wild overpay for a poorly fitting superstar Dray + Wiseman + Poole + Minny pick + our pick + 3 pick swaps for Beal. The actual trades available will likely be harder choices somewhere in the middle...
Personally, I think Wiseman is undervalued as an asset on the trade market due to his raw-ness and having been injured.
Wiseman’s effectiveness with the ball in his hands on the break seemed to be: a couple baskets early in the season, zero passes, a ton of eurostep charges once players figured out he used those massive eurosteps to end up on exactly the same line he started out upon. A few passes on the break might allow him to shift the D enough to get to the rim on the rest.
Hopefully he's healthy enough this off-season to get some real help with his game from Kevin Garnett.